Russian T-14 - best tank in the world? But Russia can't afford to manufacture them?

[The Heretic]

I was watching "Age of Tanks" on Netflix - a bit dated and somewhat superficial, at the end they talked about the new Russian T-14. So I looked it up, and as I expected, it is not in production, not even really in testing - it sounds like Russia can't afford to put it into production. Sounds like a kewl tank, if they could work out the bugs and put it into production.

T-14 Armata - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think at this point, from a military perspective, it is the Chinese that would be most likely present a military threat to the USA, if they wanted to - ignoring the cyber attacks by both Russians and Chinese.

Read More

 

[Xaevian]

I think at this point, from a military perspective, it is the Chinese that would be most likely present a military threat to the USA, if they wanted to - ignoring the cybe

Yeah, but...

Their equipment is all made in China.

 

[revjen45]

Sort of analogous to the 3rd Reich and the Tiger: over-engineered to the point that they can't make enough of them to do any good.
They may well get more bang for the buck with upgrades on existing models.

Note that in the Chechnya conflict the T-72 was vulnerable to attack from the upper floors of buildings because the main gun doesn't elevate beyond 11 degrees. The ZSU23/4 Shilha worked real well against that.

 

[The Heretic]

Sort of analogous to the 3rd Reich and the Tiger: over-engineered to the point that they can't make enough of them to do any good.

From what I have heard, Russia simply can't afford to build or maintain anything modern for their military - their economy won't support it. About the only thing they seem able to afford (that we don't prioritize, to our detriment) is nuclear powered ice breakers.

They may well get more bang for the buck with upgrades on existing models.

All of their existing deployed tanks are quite vulnerable to our tanks and aircraft and AFAIK (not being a tank expert), can't accurately fire on the move like our tanks can (and probably other tanks with gyro stabilized aiming systems with smooth suspensions)?

 

[Knobgoblin]

Sort of analogous to the 3rd Reich and the Tiger: over-engineered to the point that they can't make enough of them to do any good.
They may well get more bang for the buck with upgrades on existing models.

Note that in the Chechnya conflict the T-72 was vulnerable to attack from the upper floors of buildings because the main gun doesn't elevate beyond 11 degrees. The ZSU23/4 Shilha worked real well against that.
View attachment 1001013

I love the Zeus.

 

[tac]

Well, it seems that they HAVE built some.

The fourteen that were on the 2017 Moscow parade, were it.

Three-man crew, one of whom are in the turret, plus many many other innovative features. There is also a GIGANTIC MCIV, the T-15, based on the same running gear, also present on the same parade. Both can be bought as very fine 1/35th plastic scale models. I earnestly suggest that you buy one of each and build them - they might well be the only ones you'll ever see - with a bit of luck.

To me, in any combat scenario, battlefield, bigger simply means 'bigger target'. My Aunty Nahrleene on Mars, who sees in thermal IR, can likely see one of them quite clearly. Just sayin'.

This is the latest nooz -

Russia's state arms seller Rosoboron export had previously announced that the T-14 tank and the T-15 infantry fighting vehicle based on the Armata combat platform would be demonstrated to potential foreign buyers at the Army-2020 international arms show in August.

by Peter Suciu

This week Russia's Defense Ministry announced that the production of tanks and fighting vehicles based on the latest Armata combat platform was underway. Earlier this year Russia's Industry and Trade Minister Denis Manturov told state media that Moscow was planning to start work with foreign customers of the Armata tank in 2021 and had already received several prior requests.

Now after numerous delays, in part due to the novel coronavirus pandemic, that work has finally begun.

"Yes, the work is underway," Manturov told Tass on Monday, when asked whether the production of the armored vehicles had moved forward.
Last month, the head of Russia's Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation, Dmitry Shugayev, told reporters that Russia has started promoting the latest T-14 tanks for export. The fact that Russia has begun to offer foreign sales of the well-known and highly-touted tank has raised questions about the extent of Russian alliances.

Russia's state arms seller Rosoboron export had previously announced that the T-14 tank and the T-15 infantry fighting vehicle based on the Armata combat platform would be demonstrated to potential foreign buyers at the Army-2020 international arms show in August. Despite the coronavirus pandemic that event is still scheduled to take place at the Patriot Congress and Exhibition Center of the Russian Armed Forces in Kubinka outside of Moscow from August 23–29. It has been reported that the event will feature demonstrations of 730 items of armament and military hardware.

Too Few, Too Expensive
The T-14 tank, which is based on the Armata platform, was shown to the public for the first time at Red Square's Victory Day parade on May 9, 2015. The new combat vehicle features fully digitized equipment, an unmanned turret and an isolated armored capsule for the crew.

It has also been noted that while the T-14 Armata tank does have advanced capabilities that could give it an advantage over the American Abrams, the Russians simply may not have enough T-14s to actually present a credible threat. It is unclear whether the current production changes that dynamic.
Moreover, the tanks have faced a slew of technical problems, while in May it was reported that three T-14s were hit by TOW-2B anti-tank systems and one Armata was completely destroyed. It is unclear if any of the ongoing problems contributed to how the tanks allegedly performed in combat.

The developer of the T-14 Armata tank has worked to resolve the most notable problems including those with its engines and thermal imagers.
"Yes, the problems with both the engines and the thermal imagers have been resolved," Manturov said. "The engine generates the parameters and the technical characteristics that were laid out in the performance specifications upon its designing. As for the thermal imagers, I can confidently say that we have a fully import-substituted Russian product that is made by Shvabe [Holding]."

Despite the setback, the Armata's trials with the troops are proceeding in accordance with the schedule, the minister said.
However, the foreign sales could remain crucial as the tanks cost upwards of $4 million apiece, and as a result, initial plans by Moscow to buy 2,300 of the T-14s by 2025were pared down significantly. Unless Russia can find foreign customers to help offset the costs, the T-14 could be simply too expensive for the Russian Army.

Peter Suciu is a Michigan-based writer who has contributed to more than four dozen magazines, newspapers and websites. He is the author of several books on military headgear including A Gallery of Military Headdress, which is available on Amazon.com.

 

[edzz]

Sort of analogous to the 3rd Reich and the Tiger: over-engineered to the point that they can't make enough of them to do any good.
They may well get more bang for the buck with upgrades on existing models.

Note that in the Chechnya conflict the T-72 was vulnerable to attack from the upper floors of buildings because the main gun doesn't elevate beyond 11 degrees. The ZSU23/4 Shilha worked real well against that.
View attachment 1001013

Upgrades like?

 

[Certaindeaf]

Upgrades like?

View attachment 1001047

 

[JuglansRegia]

I think the other problem is Russia has about 15,000 T72's in storage

 

[nwslopoke]

I may be biased but unless your side owns the sky like the battleship, tanks may not be relevant. Besides, were are all comrades now anyway in 2021.

 

[The Heretic]

Russia may scrap its only aircraft carrier to avoid the embarrassment of towing it around the globe

Russia's sole aircraft carrier, the long-troubled Admiral Kuznetsov, has long been seen as a bit of an embarrassment for the Kremlin, which fancies itself

sofrep.com

 

[ma96782]

Sort of analogous to the 3rd Reich and the Tiger: over-engineered to the point that they can't make enough of them to do any good.
They may well get more bang for the buck with upgrades on existing models.

Note that in the Chechnya conflict the T-72 was vulnerable to attack from the upper floors of buildings because the main gun doesn't elevate beyond 11 degrees. The ZSU23/4 Shilha worked real well against that.
View attachment 1001013

NO DOUBT......that shooting up buildings where enemy fire is coming from......is a GOOD THING.

But....I've also heard stories about how "limited" a response can be (due to the ROE).

Aloha, Mark

 

[The Heretic]

I may be biased but unless your side owns the sky like the battleship, tanks may not be relevant. Besides, were are all comrades now anyway in 2021.

They are relevant to land battles - even urban warfare. Look what happened in Chechnya.

Battle of Grozny (1994–1995) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Context is everything. The USAF didn't want the A-10 Warthog for years, and yet, they are now admitting they are still relevant and useful.

 

[P7M13]

Components? American components, Russian components, all made in Taiwan!

- Lev Andropov, 'Armageddon'.
I had a VCR tape of that movie and he clearly said "China!"

Wanna see how it will happen? Cyber Attack, then a guerilla onslaught like the battle of Chosin Reservoir. Look up the documentary.

 

[ma96782]

Russia may scrap its only aircraft carrier to avoid the embarrassment of towing it around the globe

Russia's sole aircraft carrier, the long-troubled Admiral Kuznetsov, has long been seen as a bit of an embarrassment for the Kremlin, which fancies itself

sofrep.com

And then.....

America's Newest Carrier Is a Fiasco. The Navy Just Admitted Why.

BUT, But, but.....it can be fixed Rrrrrright?

Aloha, Mark

PS.....remember that time......when a sailor questioned/asked TRUMP about the Navy's new fangled catapult?

His response was.....

But we now know that the steam catapult was NOT put in. Maybe, it was just too late to re-think/re-do things?
Yeah......progress and all that. Whatever.

And then.....

The U.S.'s $13 Billion Aircraft Carrier Has a Toilet Problem

It’s yet another headache plaguing America's newest aircraft carrier.

www.popularmechanics.com

 

[Carbon]

I see newer quieter deisel/battery subs sitting off our coasts launching drone swarms. And hackers turning off all electronics/communication and infrastructure systems.

But I like to think all the ufo talk these days are just our top secret drones doing exercises to make our potential enemies think twice.

 

[ma96782]

I predict and fear that.......

Politicians and Politics.....will continue to hinder America's response to warfare/warfighting. And, once the initial response is done.......the troops will again be regulated to the roll of Police and Nation Building.

Yeah, the UN has something to do with that.

Whatever.

Aloha, Mark

 

[ma96782]

I see newer quieter deisel/battery subs sitting off our coasts launching drone swarms. And hackers turning off all electronics/communication and infrastructure systems.

But I like to think all the ufo talk these days are just our top secret drones doing exercises to make our potential enemies think twice.

Speaking of diesel subs......

Aloha, Mark

 

[tac]

...meanwhile, the British Army STILL holds the world record tank on tank engagement from GW1...On 26 February 1991, a Challenger achieved the longest range confirmed kill of the war, destroying an Iraqi tank with an armour-piercing fin-stabilized discarding-sabot (APFSDS) round fired over a distance of 4,700 metres (2.9 mi)—the longest tank-on-tank kill shot recorded.

We have yet to see what the Russians can do with serious opposition - and I'm not talking about the poor beggars in the Crimea.

 

[The Heretic]

My point was not that tech is a mistake - too much too soon too fast, without testing? Sure. I can't believe the Navy didn't test that tech - that was just stupid.

My point was that Russia doesn't have the resources to follow thru on its R&D. Even if the tech of the T-14 was perfect, they can't afford to produce and deploy the tank. It doesn't help that the org that developed the tank was corrupt and it sounds like someone walked away with some $