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Ruger - missed opportunity.

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by Reno911, Sep 17, 2014.

  1. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    So Ruger came out with more versions of their American line. These are labeled the Ranch series. They all are short action and there will be two chamberings, 5.56 and 300blk. 16" barrels and light. They used FDE instead of the OD in the predators for the stock, but kept the one piece rail mount for mounting optics. Price point is probably to be about the same as the predator I would imagine.

    So I'll likely be getting one in 300 black, but that's not the point.

    My rant is how they missed the great opportunity to get an inexpensive 7.62x39 bolt gun on the market. Sure I get it the 5.56 and 300blk share the same bolt so costs are down minus a different barrel. I still think they could of pulled off the 39 and sold it with the Ranch line. I sent an email asking them if anything was even in consideration. So far nothing back. I also asked if they would consider doing a 308 with the short 16" barrel. I'll have to see if they reply.

    Maybe my true rant is the confusion I have towards no one wanting to get a decent priced bolt gun in that chamber on the market. I understand there were many manufacturers that tried a few decades
    ago with no luck, however today's day and age, we want inexpensive ammo. Just look back 5 years at how many folks converted AR15s to 545x39 for the cheap surplus available. Same with the AK guys buying up all the cheap 74s. Maybe I should chalk this up there with the confusion I have towards the lack of small compact trucks that no longer exist.
     
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  2. kukusya

    kukusya King County Wa Active Member

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  3. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Trust me I have a hard on for this exact rifle. It is as hard to come by as 22 is though, that and when you do find one it certainly is not going to be easy on the pocket book.

    Ruger has an outstanding thing going with the American line. If they are chambering them in popular calibers, I'm confused to why they decided against this one.

    A 3-4 hundred bolty in 7.62x39 would make me a very happy boy.
     
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  4. kukusya

    kukusya King County Wa Active Member

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    You have a point.
     
  5. PDXSparky

    PDXSparky Keizer / Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    And it needs to have a threaded barrel. They all need a threaded barrel.
     
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  6. BrimstoneGunsmithing

    BrimstoneGunsmithing Amboy, WA New Member

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    There is really no reason we couldn't build one, and probably close to that price range. I'd want to use a Savage action, much better built and easier to work with.

    The ONLY issue with any of those, and why you don't see them much, is those radically tapered casings which make it very challenging to feed from straight magazine boxes. If we can solve that (or maybe fabricate some bottom metal to take short AK mags? Like Magpul?) then it would be an easy project to spin on a new barrel and open up the bolt face.

    I'll play with it when I get in the shop tomorrow and see if it's plausible. :)
     
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  7. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    As I am fond of saying sometimes, this isn't rocket science - we have the technology, we can build a decent quality, lightweight, compact bolt action in 762x39 for a moderate price.

    And it isn't as if the market isn't there - this is a very popular caliber.

    Personally, what I would want, would be a stainless bolt action rifle based on the latest SMLE pattern that would take an AK mag.

    Yes, I know, SIA built them for a while, but they don't anymore, and they aren't stainless.
     
  8. BrimstoneGunsmithing

    BrimstoneGunsmithing Amboy, WA New Member

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    Well... It kind of is rocket science. Not as extreme, but it's not like you can slightly modify the design and have a gun which will reliably feed that round. It would take quite a bit of tweaking, and so now you're talking about having a company build basically a completely new model which can only fire one type of round. Don't get me wrong, I think it would be sweet and I'm going to try and make it happen... but I can understand why it may not be appealing to a big company which would have to invest in a lot of new tooling for one firearm.
     
  9. BrimstoneGunsmithing

    BrimstoneGunsmithing Amboy, WA New Member

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    You know I don't think this would be a particularly cheap modification. Figure on $200 for the barrel, minimum, 'cause you're going to have to get something in .312" rather .308". Then, you either need to open up a .223 bolt face or machine and press in a bushing to bring down a .308 bolt face. So say we're at $250 now, and that's on top of the cost of the rifle. Then figure probably $120-$150 for the bottom metal and stock modification. I'm looking at a Savage Axis right now, which we can get for about $300, and it looks like the magazine opening might be just about big enough to take a Magpul AK mag...

    Super interesting idea though. I'll certainly keep playing with it.
     
  10. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Ruger could use the same barrel blanks as those they are using for the 300 bulk. All the would need to do then is machine a larger bolt face and misc bolt hardware. I'm pretty sure they can make their rotary mag design work with this cartridge without a huge over haul.

    Ruger is smart though. They are issuing the same tools to make something new. Over and over again. It's not really new, but we eat it up anyway.
     
  11. BrimstoneGunsmithing

    BrimstoneGunsmithing Amboy, WA New Member

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    I hear you. But no, the .300 Blk is .308" in diameter, 7.62x39 is .312" in diameter, which is really only used on those Russian 7.62 rifles, so you'd need to have a source for blanks... not a huge issue, but that's not a common caliber here stateside.

    And no, the rotary magazines really wouldn't work without significant modifications. You'd probably need a standard box magazine with a curve built into it, or a pivoting follower like an SKS. Again, possible but time consuming.

    All Ruger American's for example, share 99% of the same parts, and the manufacturer is able to just tweak them slightly for different calibers. This would require actually making new parts, and those parts would really only be usable on this rifle. That's a pretty huge investment for a company. And while I imagine they would have a small cult following, the majority of shooters aren't going to buy a bolt gun in this 'ballisticaly inferior' cartridge. Same reason you don't see a lot of bolt action 30-30's.

    But if we could build a compact bolt gun that takes AK mags.... that would be pretty cool.
     
  12. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    That's too much IMO. All said and done your gonna have to charge a lot to get back the labor and cost. Probably about 5-7. These Rugers retail at close to 3-4. Cheaper if your a dealer. I can always go custom, anyone can, it defeats my main idea behind an inexpensive bolt gun that shoots an inexpensive round. My main rant was with the popularity of the cartridge, why not use the opportunity, like the mini models, to get a rifle out in this caliber?
     
  13. BrimstoneGunsmithing

    BrimstoneGunsmithing Amboy, WA New Member

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    I agree. But it's not as simple as it sounds and I can understand why they wouldn't do it... but I do think they should :)
     
  14. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    As I am sure you already know, a major portion of the feeding of any mag fed rifle is the mag itself. The answer in this regard would indeed be the AK magazine, which in itself would have additional appeal to many buyers.

    As for the cartridge being "ballistically inferior", not sure if you are serious or referring the the subjective impression some have, but it can be a very accurate cartridge and it would do better in a strong bolt action than in an AK. It may not have the velocity of a .223 but it quite sufficient power, and is better for deer hunting than the .223 and one could argue that from a bolt action it could have more range than a .30-30 in a lever action.

    In a short light rifle, with a Scout Scope, it would be a nice handy rifle.

    Using an Lee-Enfield, starting with a .312 barrel already, one could set back the barrel sufficiently to rechamber for 762x39. A decent surplus Lee Enfield should be less expensive than a new Savage or Ruger. IMO the action is faster and there are, I believe, plenty of parts out there, including synthetic stocks, at reasonable prices.

    Not sure about the bolt face, but the Enfield is unique in that manner too - the ability to interchange different front portions of the bolt may be useful for this kind of mod.

    SIA has proven it could be done. Not sure why they quit doing it though. :(
     
  15. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    "SIA has proven it could be done. Not sure why they quit doing it though. :("

    It was likely cost prohibitive and despite the overall quality of the idea, it has a limited market. Sad, cool concept.
     
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  16. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    As I'm sure Brimstone will attest to, having your own machine/gunsmithing shop is the only way some of us can afford to make odd and obsolete toys.

    I could never afford a custom gun, so I went to gunsmithing school, bought machinery, screwed lots of things up learning, and now can finally do work.

    I like gunsmithing, but honestly, I enjoy building my own projects more than other peoples some times. Less stress, more imagination.
     
  17. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    When I went to LCC there was a retired guy there who was using their machine shop. It turned out that if you were a senior citizen, if you paid the materials/shop fees, the tuition was almost free, and this guy would take the machinist class every single semester for next to nothing (something like $50). He would come in almost every weekday and bring this falling/rolling block (I forget which - it was 30 years ago) rifle he was building.

    If you know the LCC machine shop you know what a good deal that was - besides having almost everything up to and including a CNC machine (which 30 years ago was no small feat for a community college), they had one of the premier machinist/metallurgy instructors for community colleges - John Neely - the guy literally wrote the book on practical metallurgy and machinist practices:

    http://www.amazon.com/Machine-Tool-...TF8&qid=1411253208&sr=1-7&keywords=john+neely

    So he had one of the best in the industry to ask help from.

    He would come in and use almost any tool in the shop for several hours a day if the regular full time students didn't need it.
     
  18. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    These days, if I want something enough, I buy it and I am not shy about paying a decent price - I understand how custom stuff costs extra. I would pay SIA their price for the Enfield in 762x39 if they were still making it.
     
  19. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    Lots of options on how to make it happen even if it's a one-off prototype.
    Not sure that a BA is necessary if one simply wants a rifle in X39 go with a TC Contender rifle;)
    or find a surplus 303/762R MG or rifle barrel:confused:
    Stainless?
    Hard Chrome it for the same result:cool:
    OR 3D print the receiver out of metal with a bolt that locks to a barrel extension ala AR:eek:
     
  20. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    A T/C pistol with carbine kit is on my list, but I still would not mind an Enfield. I already have one (Ishapore carbine) in 762x51 with a Scout Scope.