Possible new hunting opportunity

[Koda]

Okay, here's the latest invasive species. Just read about it in today's newspaper:

https://www.aba.org/first-red-flanked-bluetail-in-the-eastern-aba-area/

These birds are from Europe and Asia. The article I read said the bird's breeding range has been "steadily expanding" over the past century. This is a natural change that has been going on for some time. Reversal? So far, birdwatchers have been very excited about this news.

Its gonna take a whole lot of those to replace the shrimp in my fettuccine. And here we were worried about the barred owl being skinny...

 

[Spitpatch]

"When we're talking about the likely extinction of a species, however unpalatable and uncomfortable the conversation is of lethal removal of another species," Lee said, "people generally accept that this is sometimes necessary."

Lebensraum!

 

[jbett98]

My daughter was over for dinner the other night and when she turned her headlights on to drive home, she found a female Snowy White owl standing in the road 15' in front of her car.
The headlights must of blinded the owl, but after a few minutes, it flew up into a fir tree next door.
I'm located East of Portland, and every other year in the fall, a large Great Horned owl visits my neighborhood and scoops up the local squirrels in broad daylight.
We have a lot of oak trees here and the squirrel population (plus the city rats) keeps growing until Mr. Owl shows up.

 

[arakboss]

What happened to natural selection? If Barred Owls out compete Spotted Owls that is too bad for spotted owls. A species shouldn't rely on extraordinary intervention from us to survive.

 

[Tlock]

What happened to natural selection? If Barred Owls out compete Spotted Owls that is too bad for spotted. A species shouldn't rely on extraordinary intervention from us to survive.

Same goes for humans....we need to stop spending resources on bringing these junkies back from a fatal od. Odfw and usfws spent so much money on protecting the dusky Canada goose when they should of just let it go extinct

 

[Mono1]

What happened to natural selection? If Barred Owls out compete Spotted Owls that is too bad for spotted owls. A species shouldn't rely on extraordinary intervention from us to survive.

UMMM... THIS ^^^^ Why do most (many) Leftists simultaneously believe that there is no God, and thus we are the result of Evolutionary Natural Selection, but then also believe we must interefere in that process that they seem to Champion??

Never mind. Rhetorical question. I know the answer. And you do, too.

 

[wombatz]

Not trying to argue the point, but wanted to make sure we are being fair...

The idea is that the spotted owl was endangered by human activity. The logging of old growth forest was a problem for the owls. So, if you consider that human activity to be natural then this is all just normal/natural selection. If you pull human activity out of the equation then you can say that this is not natural selection.

I got no dog in this fight, but wanted to make sure we remember the history here.

 

[Spitpatch]

Not trying to argue the point, but wanted to make sure we are being fair...

The idea is that the spotted owl was endangered by human activity. The logging of old growth forest was a problem for the owls. So, if you consider that human activity to be natural then this is all just normal/natural selection. If you pull human activity out of the equation then you can say that this is not natural selection.

I got no dog in this fight, but wanted to make sure we remember the history here.

To be fair, THIS idea is that Barred Owls (with NO help from humans) encroached on the territory of the Spotted Owl, and (along WITH human activity toward old growth forests: their PREFERRED habitat, and according to @orygun 's Dad, NOT their exclusive one) are displacing them.

Displacing them to a degree that is at least as equally observable as destruction of habitat (a degree evidenced by the dramatic plan to cull the invaders).

Displacement IS one factor in natural selection. It might be argued (but difficult to prove) that the Barred Owls would not have encroached without any "assistance" provided by the presence of humans. But where displacement is recognized as a significant factor toward decline, those that believe it is a part of the natural selection process have a valid point. Our own species to a great degree owes its very existence to displacement of kindred species.

Humans damned sure logged off the old growth forests that the Spotted Owl prefers to nest in, and we can add or subtract that fact (along with humans) as "natural" or "unnatural" toward the Spotted Owl's decline.

It's a little tougher to subtract as "unnatural" a first cousin of the victim (with every right and ability to migrate to better hunting ground) the same way.

 

[wombatz]

It's a little tougher to subtract as "unnatural" a first cousin of the victim (with every right and ability to migrate to better hunting ground) the same way.

Good point. I had not even checked the genus of these two owls. So, this is a case of a slightly better "version" evolving in the east and then slowly moving over here to displace the "version" that can't compete as well. Yes, I know that "better" is entirely dependent on the environmental niche, which changes over time.

 

[Koda]

I read somewhere that the barred owls expansion into western states was because of human activity. Something about planting (forest )habitat for them for other reasons..

 

[GrayGoose]

What about the invasive species coming in across the southern border? When does that season start?

 

[Spitpatch]

I read somewhere that the barred owls expansion into western states was because of human activity. Something about planting (forest )habitat for them for other reasons..

I don't discount that possibility, but how far back are we to take the "causation" chain?

One other important thing to consider is why are we hearing about this "significant factor" (Barred Owls) more than 30 years after the Spotted Owl decline was identified??

Quite possibly because the same researchers that did not bother to look for Spotted Owl nests in second-growth forests (thanks again, @orygun 's Dad!) are still employing the same faulty methods of research.

A severely tardy identification of a "significant factor" in species decline damages the integrity of all research toward such study.

 

[DeanMk]

Starlings are another great example.....100 birds brought here in the late 1800's. They also cause millions of dollars in damage each year. In my opinion wolves fall into the same category....

I can still remember my parents neighbor, a guy everyone called "Bobo". He'd stand at the end of his yard with one foot on a log that denoted the edge of the bank, looking up into a nearby tree that those birds like to flock to, before they laid havoc over the houses.
12 ga. in one hand, sometimes a beer in the other.....all silhouetted against the canal, the mountains and the setting sun.
Geez, it could've been a movie poster.
....and then the birds would show up.
KA-WHOOM!!!
Didn't really do much to the Starling population, but it made him feel better.

 

[robertvarner]

Remember in the mid 80s when the Spotted Owl was endangered because of logging and clearcut harvesting? Then Science took a hand and shut down nearly all logging and mills in the northwest. "That was the problem", they said.

Later it was discovered "the Science" covered up the fact that logging was not the culprit that caused the Spotted Owl to become endangered, but it was the larger and more aggressive Barred Owl. Ah, hah!

 

[JRuby]

It's easier for a lot of people to associate with cute fuzzy owls than it is to relate to old growth forests. It was never about the spotted owl it was about saving the old growth forests.

 

[orygun]

It's easier for a lot of people to associate with cute fuzzy owls than it is to relate to old growth forests. It was never about the spotted owl it was about saving the old growth forests.

And thus killing the economies of many communities in several western states. It was cruel.

 

[JRuby]

And thus killing the economies of many communities in several western states. It was cruel.

After having driven from Mount Shasta to Reno I wonder how much of the old forests got destroyed in the fires there a few years ago

 

[DeanMk]

It's easier for a lot of people to associate with cute fuzzy owls than it is to relate to old growth forests. It was never about the spotted owl it was about saving the old growth forests.

...but, according to "the science", it was those old growth forests that were the habitat of the spotted owl, that's why that bird is associated with closing down most of the lumber mills.
They said the mills were cutting down those forests and thus, killing off the habitat of The Spotted Owl.
What they weren't telling people is, useage of old growth forests is what is keeping the forests alive in the PNW.
The mills aren't stupid. They started the land and forestry management divisions back in the 60's, because THEY realized they were deforesting themselves right out of existence, so they started doing those studies to see how to manage a forest in a healthy manner.
...but instead, the folks I still call 'The Emo People" didn't want to wrap their heads around that, so they whined to the news media and the power of the press did the rest.
Shut down a number of perfectly good lumber mills, put a whole bunch of people out of work and almost flattened whole towns in the process.
All brought to you by the same idiots that advocated the useage of plastic water bottles, because wax paper cartons were destroying our forests.
...and nowadays, "The Children of The Emo People" can't understand why useage of plastic water bottles has gone "unchecked" for so many years.
Good Lord! Get me offa this merry-go-round already!

 

[Savage Jav]

What happened to natural selection? If Barred Owls out compete Spotted Owls that is too bad for spotted owls. A species shouldn't rely on extraordinary intervention from us to survive.

So no salmon run then

 

[arakboss]

So no salmon run then

Not around here unless we tear down the dams.