National Rifle definition change to include braces?

[Yarome]

Interesting. Rumors that the ATF is wanting to propose a change to the rifle definition?



Does that mean that the whole pistol brace/SBR issue would be made moot and effectively make braced pistols "rifles" instead of an SBR? Hu, what now??

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[Stomper]

Every SBR is a rifle, but not every rifle is an SBR.

Capiche?

 

[Yarome]

Every SBR is a rifle, but not every rifle is an SBR.

Gotcha. So a braced/stabilized pistol is no longer a thing at all. It's a rifle, period. Including any handgun (glock, 1911, etc.) with any type of stabilizer... right? "any weapon with a rifled barrel and equipped with an attached stabilizing brace".

 

[Reperio]

This would mean you can no longer have your loaded AR "pistol" in your vehicle with you, unless you remove the "brace".

 

[Yarome]

This would mean you can no longer have your loaded AR "pistol" in your vehicle with you, unless you remove the "brace".

That's true. If the pistol/sbr rule thing falls through for them... they still gotcha!

That would shut down open carry as well for states that allow pistols, but not rifles.

I get it now.

 

[Stomper]

Gotcha. So a braced/stabilized pistol is no longer a thing at all. It's a rifle, period. Including any handgun (glock, 1911, etc.) with any type of stabilizer... right? "any weapon with a rifled barrel and equipped with an attached stabilizing brace".

They become an SBR to be precise.

 

[GrayGoose]

I have seen a LOT of people out at the range over the past few years with braced pistol-length AR15s, but have NEVER seen one of them ever use it as a brace, always shouldering it as a stock. So it was only a matter of time until the jackboots changed their rules.

 

[Yarome]

They become an SBR to be precise.

Right. Good luck telling a disabled vet he can no longer carry his loaded stabilized 1911 in his vehicle with him.

Maybe they will make up an exemption and issue a placard to be displayed around the neck or stapled to their foreheads.....

 

[CamoDeafie]

Interesting. Rumors that the ATF is wanting to propose a change to the rifle definition?

View attachment 1280997

Does that mean that the whole pistol brace/SBR issue would be made moot and effectively make braced pistols "rifles" instead of an SBR? Hu, what now??

If this goes through it would mean that all the braced firearms whose barrel lengths are under 16" would effectively become SBRs (Short Barreled Rifles) as opposed to only those whose Overall Lengths are under 26" ("under that length is "concealable" according to ATF" )

 

[arakboss]

They become an SBR to be precise.

Unless it has a 16+ inch barrel, than it's just a rifle

 

[Reperio]

Unless it has a 16+ inch barrel, than it's just a rifle

In which case it was never a "pistol" to begin with and doesn't have anything to do with the possible new rules.

 

[arakboss]

In which case it was never a "pistol" to begin with and doesn't have anything to do with the possible new rules.

If it had a stabilizing brace it would have been a pistol regardless of barrel length.

 

[Reperio]

If it had a stabilizing brace it would have been a pistol regardless of barrel length.

Putting a brace on a rifle doesn't make it a pistol.

 

[CamoDeafie]

If it had a stabilizing brace it would have been a pistol regardless of barrel length.

Not necessarily; there may be a gray area between the NFA definitions and the GCA definitions. I'm not quite finding a specific definition of Handgun in the GCA 1968; but GCA notably says either under 16" barrel, or a weapon made from a rifle by modification whose overall length is under 26". Nothing about a pistol becoming a SBR in the GCA 1968, but NFA does say it becomes a SBR if you add a shoulder stock to a pistol.

The gray area I am referring to is the overall length greater than 26", but not made from a rifle .

Unless it has a 16+ inch barrel, than it's just a rifle

Or a firearm. If no shoulder stock and an OAL greater than 26", unless they say all pistol braces are the same as shoulder stock

In which case it was never a "pistol" to begin with and doesn't have anything to do with the possible new rules.

The definition of a handgun according to the ATF is a weapon designed to be fired by one hand. yea, almost no one teaches single handed firing of semiautomatic handguns

 

[arakboss]

Putting a brace on a rifle doesn't make it a pistol.

A rifled barreled firearm made with a stock and designed to be fired with two hands is a rifle regardless of barrel length.

A rifled barreled firearm made with a stabilizing brace and designed to be fired with one hand is a pistol regardless of barrel length.


There is no maximum barrel length for handguns designed to be fired with one hand that I have come across.

 

[arakboss]

Not necessarily; there may be a gray area between the NFA definitions and the GCA definitions. I'm not quite finding a specific definition of Handgun in the GCA 1968; but GCA notably says either under 16" barrel, or a weapon made from a rifle by modification whose overall length is under 26". Nothing about a pistol becoming a SBR in the GCA 1968, but NFA does say it becomes a SBR if you add a shoulder stock to a pistol.

The gray area I am referring to is the overall length greater than 26", but not made from a rifle .


Or a firearm. If no shoulder stock and an OAL greater than 26", unless they say all pistol braces are the same as shoulder stock

The definition of a handgun according to the ATF is a weapon designed to be fired by one hand. yea, almost no one teaches single handed firing of semiautomatic handguns

"Or a firearm. If no shoulder stock and an OAL greater than 26", unless they say all pistol braces are the same as shoulder stock"

The "firearm" vs pistol designation for a firearm over 26" and no stock would only come into play if you added a foregrip to it. Otherwise it would still be a pistol whether it was 25 inches or 27 inches in overall length.

 

[Camelfilter]

Interesting. Rumors that the ATF is wanting to propose a change to the rifle definition?

View attachment 1280997

Does that mean that the whole pistol brace/SBR issue would be made moot and effectively make braced pistols "rifles" instead of an SBR? Hu, what now??

What is the source of the above clipped & pasted text?

 

[CamoDeafie]

A rifled barreled firearm made with a stabilizing brace and designed to be fired with one hand is a pistol regardless of barrel length.

Originally, yes. That it managed to be OK 10 years ago, and approved, and has been OK since then until the last year and half is significant. One member here maintains that it was a mistake done in 2012 and that they have always been a shoulder stock masquerading as "wrist/stabilizing braces"

In any case.. if anyone thinks "common use" is gonna remove SBRs and possibly AOWs from the NFA.. let me just point to suppressors/silencers and the fact that these are among the most popular, if not the most popular NFA item, and the simple fact that for the last 6+ years or so, the bill to remove suppressors/silencers from the NFA has consistently failed to get voted on. (Hearing Protection Act) so.. why would AR firearms with braces, be they pistols or "SBRs", even if there's no less than 10 million of them in the US, be a point towards removing SBR/SBS/AOWs from the NFA categories? It just won't happen if suppressors/silencers aren't off the NFA so far even if they are more popular than SBRs.

 

[CamoDeafie]

"Or a firearm. If no shoulder stock and an OAL greater than 26", unless they say all pistol braces are the same as shoulder stock"

The "firearm" vs pistol designation for a firearm over 26" and no stock would only come into play if you added a foregrip to it. Otherwise it would still be a pistol whether it was 25 inches or 27 inches in overall length.

The ATF says an AOW has to be under 26" OAL (concealable is 26"). However, adding a vertical foregrip to a pistol is an AOW unless it's not concealable then it's potentially just a firearm... but if the lower was registered as a pistol?

 

[Cavedweller]

That would shut down open carry as well for states that allow pistols, but not rifles.

Are there states that do not allow open carry of rifles? If so, how does anyone go hunting?