National More Info On Brace Ban

[fmvolume86]

I am talking about the serial number of the firearm; if you bought a stripped receiver after 2015, there will be that record in a DB somewhere (assuming you did the transfer according to the law).

If you built from scratch using an "80%" receiver, then no records of it (before the new frame/receiver rules went/go into effect).

I understand that but having a serial number and having a photo of your completed firearm are not the same thing. But you go right ahead and give them photos lol

 

[The Heretic]

I understand that but having a serial number and having a photo of your completed firearm are not the same thing. But you go right ahead and give them photos lol

If you read my posts, you would know that it is unlikely that I would be sending the ATF anything voluntarily.

That said, I have no illusions/delusions about them already know a whole lot about what guns I have.

 

[wired]

If you read my posts, you would know that it is unlikely that I would be sending the ATF anything voluntarily.

That said, I have no illusions/delusions about them already know a whole lot about what guns I have.

I think you give them too much credit

 

[Rkangel]

Ask yourself, what is the purpose of registration? Too many people seem to think that registration is some sort of reciprocal contract. It isn't. It only grants you permission (which can be revoked at any time). It doesn't protect you. It doesn't protect your property. It doesn't guarantee your future ownership. It doesn't nullify future bans or legislation. It doesn't prevent them from outlawing what you registered. It doesn't prevent them from changing the rules. It doesn't prevent them from penalizing you. It's not a magic get-out-of-jail-free card. It doesn't make you cooler than other people. It doesn't actually give you freedom. It is a one way street where you have ceded your freedoms to follow all the rules while the government doesn't have to keep any promises because they've made no promises.
We can keep arguing that it "was just a matter of time" until we're out of time. The reality is that it is only a matter of time before they ban everything, including precious SBRs.

 

[wired]

Ask yourself, what is the purpose of registration? Too many people seem to think that registration is some sort of reciprocal contract. It isn't. It only grants you permission (which can be revoked at any time). It doesn't protect you. It doesn't protect your property. It doesn't guarantee your future ownership. It doesn't nullify future bans or legislation. It doesn't prevent them from outlawing what you registered. It doesn't prevent them from changing the rules. It doesn't prevent them from penalizing you. It's not a magic get-out-of-jail-free card. It doesn't make you cooler than other people. It doesn't actually give you freedom. It is a one way street where you have ceded your freedoms to follow all the rules while the government doesn't have to keep any promises because they've made no promises.
We can keep arguing that it "was just a matter of time" until we're out of time. The reality is that it is only a matter of time before they ban everything, including precious SBRs.

If you look at the history of the NFA its been remarkably stable for the last 86 years . No more new machineguns thanks to the great communicator but existing ones were grandfathered and no one talks about repealing the NFA. Braced pistols were a legal stupid mistake. Its absolutely no surprise whatsoever that there is a push to rule them SR's. What we are seeing is an ATF that is rebounding from 15-20 years some major mistakes in the 80's and 90's and of holding back prosecutions and they were just essentially running on autopilot with a decimated tech dept doing stupid bubblegum and no agency leader.

 

[nehalemguy]

One of the biggest issues to me with Sbring something, even if it's free (which I doubt it will be because "amnesty" = "forgiveness of a crime/chance to register an "illegal" gun", and does not equal "fees waived" imo) is that when it comes time to sell it u have lots of hurdles to get over.

A regular gun you can just transfer. Meet at ffl, basic background check. Boom, done. Easy peasy.

An sbr requires the buyer to trust that the seller will follow through after the long wait process (1 year?) before it can be transferred. And the seller has to trust the buyer will follow through after the long wait. What if someone gets hit by a truck, moves, has a life change? What if the new buyer is not approved by ATF? Etc. It makes it more risky and its no longer the simple process of meet at ffl, transfer, done.

Or if using an ffl as an intermediary things that could go wrong come into play such as will they still be in business? will they take the gun out and shoot it during the one year(?) wait etc. does ffl have a fee for this intermediary service? Will it be difficult to get the gun back if something goes wrong? Etc. Remember the instance where we have a member here who left the gun with an ffl for work to be done and many months later the ffl tried to sell the gun? Things like that are rare but can happen.

Also the number of buyers is more limited because many buyers won't want to mess with the sbr application process, fingerprints, $200, photos?, etc. Also some buyers won't want to have the gun federally registered so will move on to another gun that they don't have to register.

So I would consider all possible complications before sbring a gun. Some poeple might be ok with those complications, while others may not.

For me an appropriate analogy is car sales. I've had around 500 cars in my lifetime and a cardinal rule for me is don't buy a car without a title in hand (or legit paperwork from the auction). This has saved me tons of worry and fuss. If you buy a car with the promise of the lost title will be coming in x months (or similar outstanding loose ends) then that introduces a whole set of risks that may result in you having to fight to get the title or perhaps never get it. Believe me things can and will go wrong between the time promises are made and things are finalized, especially if money has changed hands.

Just food for thought. Do whatever makes sense to you but I think being aware of all the factors before deciding can be helpful.

Much like the previous posts discussing crossing state lines with a SBR, you are also making it harder than it needs to be.

Simply remove the brace and sell the firearm as a normal pistol (if it started as a pistol.....this is why all my SBR's start life as pistols instead of rifles) or break up the component parts and sell separately if it started as a rifle. Just because an SBR is currently an SBR doesn't mean that it has to stay that way for eternity.

If the new buyer decides they want to go the SBR route, they can pay the $200 tax and worry about the wait.

-E-

 

[wired]

Much like the previous posts discussing crossing state lines with a SBR, you are also making it harder than it needs to be.

Simply remove the brace and sell the firearm as a normal pistol (if it started as a pistol.....this is why all my SBR's start life as pistols instead of rifles) or break up the component parts and sell separately if it started as a rifle. Just because an SBR is currently an SBR doesn't mean that it has to stay that way for eternity.

If the new buyer decides they want to go the SBR route, they can pay the $200 tax and worry about the wait.

-E-

Yep. Its only an SBR when its got the stock on it. Otherwise its just a pistol if it started that way. If not put a long barrel on it and its a rifle.

Free stamps good.

 

[fmvolume86]

well it's a pistol because you bought it as a pistol.... this isn't the same as it a machine gun and now we're banning machine guns. Are they banning Pistols if the answer is NO and they have never disapproved of Pistols before AND approved pistol braces themselves...... THEN they can go kick rocks. Americans bend the knee way tooooo fast. You legally bought it as a pistol with a brace, you broke no laws, and they have no authority to create new laws. If there was a new law passed banning pistols then they would need to enforce that but in this case I think they're going to lose big time, and they know that but they wnat to scare people and try to get as many to send them photos and build up their registration further and they'd love for them all to turn into SBR so they have more control.

 

[nehalemguy]

Free stamps good.

I'm going to rent out my brace for photo shoots. *


* Ok.....not really ATF, but that's how absurd the photo requirement would be.

-E-

 

[Rkangel]

If you look at the history of the NFA its been remarkably stable for the last 86 years .

So was the perception of the stability of this country, economy, morality, and rule of law. However, daily events are proving that stability is no longer a word that can realistically be used to describe our current situation. The very people creating and enforcing our laws have no problem violating them when it suits their purposes or politics. The Bill of Rights has been the law for 231 years, yet it is now being destroyed and attacked on a daily basis. If these people have no respect for the supreme law of our nation, do we honestly believe they will respect any others?

Respectfully, what we are seeing is not the ATF rebounding from mistakes, but reacting out of fear and politics.

 

[wired]

well it's a pistol because you bought it as a pistol.... this isn't the same as it a machine gun and now we're banning machine guns. Are they banning Pistols if the answer is NO and they have never disapproved of Pistols before AND approved pistol braces themselves...... THEN they can go kick rocks. Americans bend the knee way tooooo fast. You legally bought it as a pistol with a brace, you broke no laws, and they have no authority to create new laws. If there was a new law passed banning pistols then they would need to enforce that but in this case I think they're going to lose big time, and they know that but they wnat to scare people and try to get as many to send them photos and build up their registration further and they'd love for them all to turn into SBR so they have more control.

The SCOTUS just said the agencies had no right to make "rulings" in lieu of Congress passing laws. The brace thing was a ruling to begin with. That initial ruling siding with SIG is in real jeopardy.

 

[LeBewm]

Well just putting this out there, I just posted an sba3 brace as well as a spikes tactical 556 pistol in the fs for parts & accessories and Handguns sections accordingly

locals only

 

[wired]

I'm going to rent out my brace for photo shoots. *


* Ok.....not really ATF, but that's how absurd the photo requirement would be.

-E-

Probably take you up on that. I have 4 AK receivers I need to flesh out before December

 

[Horatius]

For the benefit of those of us where English may not be our mother tongue... how the heck did you people come up with "stand corrected"? What exactly does it mean (I get, I stood corrected the gist)... and... how does that differ from sit or squat corrected?

Inquiring minds....

I thought it was after my Dad paddled my Butt, I stood corrected!

 

[Yarome]

what's funny is all the gimmicks used to skirt the LAW

How many view it... look at the great lengths people are forced to go through to exercise a right that the "law" continually tries to infringe on... unlawfully.

I get your point, but challenging an unlawful rule also has merit.

 

[Horatius]

How many view it... look at the great lengths people are forced to go through to exercise a right that the "law" continually tries to infringe on... unlawfully.

I get your point, but challenging an unlawful rule also has merit.

Gotta like anyone who likes John Wayne, doesn't know how to stand corrected but will stand for what's correct

 

[Yarome]

Gotta like anyone who likes John Wayne, doesn't know how to stand corrected but will stand for what's correct

For the record. I knew the intended meaning of "stand corrected', just not how the heck you "get there" from those two English words. Kinda like "kick the bucket". Not sure how using your foot as an implement to dislodge a milking container from the ground translates, or how a dead man would accomplish such a task, but I get it. They're worm food.

Other phrases and meanings are little more direct and clear. Ie., "I'm gonna break my foot off in your a**". Not sure why someone would want to or how exactly one would accomplish it, but it's quite clear... it connotates a high level of displeasure and intimidating to consider.

English can be challenging.

 

[Horatius]

For the record. I knew the intended meaning of "stand corrected', just not how the heck you "get there" from those two English words. Kinda like "kick the bucket". Not sure how using your foot as an implement to dislodge a milking container from the ground translates, or how a dead man would accomplish such a task, but I get it. They're worm food.

English can be challenging.

we speak American, we used to pride ourselves on being a melting pot of people and Ideas, the concept was a point of pride and fresh ideas. American is a combination and bastardization of many cultures and languages! The shared concept of each adding to the pot is now called cultural appropriation and tribal division may cause the Melting Pot to Kick the Bucket
Friends from England insist we do not speak English here, but then my 6-year-old daughter at the time, had recently asked them how they celebrate the 4th of July in England

 

[American123]

what's funny is all the gimmicks used to skirt the LAW


Atkins accelerator first a spring then no spring,
bumb stock
brace
FRT
and so on
all with the design to skirt the law's on the books,
one FRT is designed in such a way that there is no one shot ability's
it's all or nothing,

if you keep poking the bear, why are you surprised at all that he is bringing a club?

George Orwell called he want's his double think back!

So definitions created by politicians that don't apply to perfectly legal technology on items that operate WITHIN the law as written are "skirting the law."

Just stop… the fear of freedom being exemplified by that thought process is embarrassing.

 

[Yarome]

Friends from England insist we do not speak English here, but then my 6-year-old daughter at the time, had recently asked them how they celebrate the 4th of July in England

Friggin hilarious! I don't care who ya are... that's just good parenting, right there!