Resistance may very well start in New York State

[egilman]

They probably will pass a law prohibiting new sales of 11+ round magazines, maybe even get a scary black gun law passed. No one will be criminalized for owning any of those items, and they won't try to take them away or even force us to register them.

The law's permanence will be contingent on its effectiveness at reducing gun violence, which we all know it won't do. It will end when they realize that it's a complete waste of time and money with no results.

Bob, with all due respect, in liberal states, they do not judge a law by it's effectiveness, they judge a law by how well it can be tweaked into something that they think works.

The issue is a foundational one....... The cement is poured, we either knock the forms of and bulldoze it now, or you will see the skyscraper of disarmament built upon it....

Just historical facts......

 

[dmancornell]

They probably will pass a law prohibiting new sales of 11+ round magazines, maybe even get a scary black gun law passed. No one will be criminalized for owning any of those items, and they won't try to take them away or even force us to register them.

The law's permanence will be contingent on its effectiveness at reducing gun violence, which we all know it won't do. It will end when they realize that it's a complete waste of time and money with no results.

LOL @ the state caring whether their actions waste time or money.

As for throwing law-abiding citizens in prison, it's been done before and the courts made it legal: Japanese American internment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But that'll never happen again, because the politicians now are so much better than the ones back then, amirite?

 

[hermannr]

I really hope they dont run anywhere near as smoothly. I hope eventually the citizens grow some nuts and it branches off into those sheriffs & the rest is history.

Actually, the Sheriff's are up in arms too...it is Cuomos goons (the NYSP) that are pushing these meetings, not the local sheriff's. Remember, there is a MAJOR flaw in the "Safe Act". They forgot to put a LE exemption in the law.

 

[hermannr]

LOL @ the state caring whether their actions waste time or money.

As for throwing law-abiding citizens in prison, it's been done before and the courts made it legal: Japanese American internment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But that'll never happen again, because the politicians now are so much better than the ones back then, amirite?

Actually, FDR had no respect for the constitution, after all, he was from NY. Ob is just an FDR clone that also has no respect for the constitution. One difference is, FDR had a solid Democratic majority in both the house and senate,,,Ob does not.

 

[hermannr]

we need to support our brothers and sisters in this fight ,the second amendment doesn't stop at the new York border.
The supreme court has already heard this case
United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939), was a Supreme Court case that involved the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Second Amendment protects only the ownership of military-type weapons appropriate for use in an organized militia. that was one of the arguments for the goverment

You need to read Heller (v DC) and Mc Donnald (v Chicago). The Heller decision specifically states the weapons "in common use" are protected, and ownership for the purpose of personal self defense is also protected by the 2A. The McDonnald decision incorporates the 2A to state law via the 14th amendment,

 

[Bob D]

LOL @ the state caring whether their actions waste time or money.

As for throwing law-abiding citizens in prison, it's been done before and the courts made it legal: Japanese American internment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But that'll never happen again, because the politicians now are so much better than the ones back then, amirite?

You can replace time and money with any of the resources that they translate to. Control? Power? This sort of thing gives them net losses on all those fronts. The only resource they really need is pacified citizens.

As for Japanese internment, It was a vastly different world back then. The ease of global communication now is too large, too free, for that to be worth it. Imagine the twitter backlash that would have happened then if it had been available. They had the option of control then. They don't now.

 

[TheHumungus]

People will only start resisting once they truly view the government as illegitimate. In this country, although the government often picks and chooses which laws they will actively enforce, as citizens we don't have the luxury to just pick and choose which laws we will obey and which ones we ignore. We either have to obey all, or resist all. I mean if we don't comply with gun laws, why then bother complying with traffic laws?

Here is a recent article by Glenn Reynolds about this very subject:

A revolution in the works? Column

Until a constitutional convention or genuine revolution takes place, or if only a small percentage of the population actually "resists," nothing much will change, and most people will fall in line in the end. Their lives are too comfortable. I am not yet sure most law-abiding, honest people have the stomach to resist. It's not in their DNA. However, we can be pushed only so far by Government.......

 

[dmancornell]

You can replace time and money with any of the resources that they translate to. Control? Power? This sort of thing gives them net losses on all those fronts. The only resource they really need is pacified citizens.

Say what now? Passing new gun control laws is a *loss* of control and power?

Actually power and control is the only thing the state cares about, hence the passage of such laws.

As for Japanese internment, It was a vastly different world back then. The ease of global communication now is too large, too free, for that to be worth it. Imagine the twitter backlash that would have happened then if it had been available. They had the option of control then. They don't now.

Sure, because the state won't craft up some new Emmanuel Goldstein to justify whatever atrocity they commit. The internet works both ways, it can propagate government propaganda as well as dissenting opinions.

Just look at the continuing persecution of the drug war despite the vast amounts of evidence available on the internet documenting its absolute, utter failure. The state tosses hundreds of thousands of harmless people into prison, and a large chunk of the population continue to support this 30 year government crime spree.

 

[Stomper]

Ya'll'er assuming that the internet can't/won't be shut down. I do believe there are already provisions in place to do just that very thing in the event of an "emergency". I also vaguely recall reading about a Presidential Executive Order that is set in place to impliment this upon the right "triggering event".

 

[Bob D]

Say what now? Passing new gun control laws is a *loss* of control and power?

Absolutely. They lose pacified citizens and don't disarm any of the people that they would need to. It's a net loss of control/power to pass extreme gun control laws. I'm certain they know that.

 

[dmancornell]

Absolutely. They lose pacified citizens and don't disarm any of the people that they would need to. It's a net loss of control/power to pass extreme gun control laws. I'm certain they know that.

Yeah, NFA34/GCA68 was a huge step back in government power. :huh:

Criminals by definition ignore laws, the power lords in government are satisfied with extending their control over the 99% of people who are not criminals. More control of 99% and no change to 1% is a net gain.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

Wish there was some younger folks in that meeting. God Bless those who attended and stood up for the 2A, but I am concerned that energy is going to mostly go away with a generation of people.

 

[davemata]

You have not been talking with my old friends in NY and New England that fought in bloody wars to defend this country and its constitution.

Cool story bro. The handful of them are going to do what in New York? The average new englander has no problem with setting your boys up to getting blunted by the tip of the .govs bloody spear. What will happen is really simple, and straight out of a comic book. NYC will push for and get a total gun ban led by Cuomo and Bloomberg. New Yorkers will fall over each other to make nice with the new private army that will rise under the control of Governor Bloomberg. (Yeah, he's getting a promotion.) There will be a few patriots who try to resist, and they'll be quickly dispatched, while their bodies will be paraded around as terrorists.

Buh bye Silver Hand's buddies. Buh bye, New York freedom. That is what New Yorkers and most New Englanders want. The ones that aren't already geldings will quickly come into line, move, or no longer be on this side of the earth.

New England is lost. It's where America went to die. If their cancer spreads, I fear as a nation of principles and quality, we're done for.

 

[davemata]

Wild generalizations. Condemning the entire population for the actions of their elected officials?

The people want them there, nay.
Crave them and their actions.

 

[davemata]

Absolutely. They lose pacified citizens and don't disarm any of the people that they would need to. It's a net loss of control/power to pass extreme gun control laws. I'm certain they know that.

So now you're saying that gun control laws reduce government power. I'm far too sober for this line of reasoning.

 

[Bob D]

So now you're saying that gun control laws reduce government power. I'm far too sober for this line of reasoning.

That is exactly what I'm saying. In this country, enacting gun control laws will increase lawlessness and decrease the percentage of pacified citizens by massive margins. Just go look at the "I will not comply" thread for evidence. It is governmental suicide to pass a law confiscating firearms. Even requiring registration would probably send us into near chaos. I know trying to enforce it would.

An ineffectual magazine cap and more restrictive background checks is probably the absolute most they could get passed, and they know it.

 

[davemata]

That is exactly what I'm saying. In this country, enacting gun control laws will increase lawlessness and decrease the percentage of pacified citizens by massive margins. Just go look at the "I will not comply" thread for evidence. It is governmental suicide to pass a law confiscating firearms. Even requiring registration would probably send us into near chaos. I know trying to enforce it would.

An ineffectual magazine cap and more restrictive background checks is probably the absolute most they could get passed, and they know it.

Ok, that makes far more sense then the original statement. You were going all Mugatu on us with it.

I don't think it would decrease their power, because ultimately, they could use it to increase the force with which they control those under their power. It won't be tickets and confiscations, it will be late night no knocks where people, innocent people, die. Which will increase their power, as more people decide to comply and continue to breathe.

I have no love for the area, but the leaders they put in power know how to exert control efficiently.

 

[dmancornell]

That is exactly what I'm saying. In this country, enacting gun control laws will increase lawlessness and decrease the percentage of pacified citizens by massive margins. Just go look at the "I will not comply" thread for evidence. It is governmental suicide to pass a law confiscating firearms. Even requiring registration would probably send us into near chaos. I know trying to enforce it would.

An ineffectual magazine cap and more restrictive background checks is probably the absolute most they could get passed, and they know it.

Right, because state will not use crushing violence to pacify dissenters and uphold their newfound power.

There are probably still millions of unregistered NFA items buried in PVC pipes across the country by their felonious owners. All that lawlessness did not decrease the power of the state by one iota.

 

[Bob D]

Ok, that makes far more sense then the original statement. You were going all Mugatu on us with it.

I don't think it would decrease their power, because ultimately, they could use it to increase the force with which they control those under their power. It won't be tickets and confiscations, it will be late night no knocks where people, innocent people, die. Which will increase their power, as more people decide to comply and continue to breathe.

I have no love for the area, but the leaders they put in power know how to exert control efficiently.

Well, I don't know. It seems to me that a strong majority of military service members, especially in the most important areas for insurrection (mid-level NCOs, lower level officers), are very, very fond of the second amendment. That sentiment only seems to get stronger once they are out of the service. Oddly enough, our military has been accidentally conditioning a distrust for the federal government in its people for years by way of screwing us all over at every opportunity.

As soon as the government takes violent actions against peacable citizens to enforce a gun control law, It's the beginning of the end for whatever regime is in control, and anyone that decides to stand with them. And they know that.

 

[Tbucket]

The only problem I see with that Bob, is that the government should know a lot of things but they sure as hell do not act like it. I swear they live in some fantasy land that is not even close to the world we live in.