A very useful PSA

[lucusloc]

You should always double check your setup when permanently installing anything.



I have been slowly installing new muzzle devices on everything to take advantage of all my new suppressors, and this rifle got the treatment last week. I am not going to point out exactly what is wrong with that image, but I am sure the smartest of you here can figure it out. I will say I got it on there like that by using a setup very reminiscent of how the picture was taken, but that hint may be big enough that even the less bright of you may be able to figure it out now.

Next I have a question for the think tank; that accessory has been glued down with high temp loctight. Anyone have any ideas on how to get it off short of a 6ft breaker bar?

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[arakboss]

You should always double check your setup when permanently installing anything.

View attachment 1869218

I have been slowly installing new muzzle devices on everything to take advantage of all my new suppressors, and this rifle got the treatment last week. I am not going to point out exactly what is wrong with that image, but I am sure the smartest of you here can figure it out. I will say I got it on there like that by using a setup very reminiscent of how the picture was taken, but that hint may be big enough that even the less bright of you may be able to figure it out now.

Next I have a question for the think tank; that accessory has been glued down with high temp loctight. Anyone have any ideas on how to get it off short of a 6ft breaker bar?

I see the problem. The colors clash. I would replace the bipod or mbus instead of the muzzle device

 

[lucusloc]

I see the problem. The colors clash. I would replace the bipod or mbus instead of the muzzle device

I suppose I can take a torch to it. Might not cause the loctight to break, but I am sure it would get rid of the polymer nonetheless.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Meh, what's the worst that can happen? It makes you believe your shooting a full size rifle round?

 

[lucusloc]

Meh, what's the worst that can happen? It makes you believe your shooting a full size rifle round?

Well, it is a full sized rifle round. That is a 308 upper for an AR-10. . .

 

[Nosferatu]

Which loctite did you use?

 

[lucusloc]

Which loctite did you use?

High Temp Permatex Red (27200). It is rated to 450 Fahrenheit and 220 something ft-lbs of torque. They recommend heating to 500 F for disassembly, but a. I would need to dissemble the whole rifle to do that and b. I am pretty sure that would damage the finish and temper on any affected parts. If there is a way to fix this (eg non-marring solvent) I would like to try that first before breaking out the tools and the torch.

 

[Nosferatu]

High Temp Permatex Red (27200). It is rated to 450 Fahrenheit and 220 something ft-lbs of torque. They recommend heating to 500 F for disassembly, but a. I would need to dissemble the whole rifle to do that and b. I am pretty sure that would damage the finish on any affected parts. If there is a way to fix this (eg non-marring solvent) I would like to try that first before breaking out the tools and the torch.

yes, you'd wreck the finish with that much heat.

I haven't used 27200, but have lots of experience with 777 and 747. We used an aerosol Loctite gasket remover, which was just methylene chloride, IIRC. Add heat as necessary. Sometimes a good heat gun combined with the gasket remover worked fine. Things glued together for long periods of time required the oxy/propane torch.

 

[lucusloc]

yes, you'd wreck the finish with that much heat.

I haven't used 27200, but have lots of experience with 777 and 747. We used an aerosol Loctite gasket remover, which was just methylene chloride, IIRC. Add heat as necessary. Sometimes a good heat gun combined with the gasket remover worked fine. Things glued together for long periods of time required the oxy/propane torch.

so what you are saying is the faster I deal with this the easier it will be. I will go see if I can find some gasket remover here in short order then. Maybe a bulk can so I can soak it, since the threads are buried under quite a few shims (Ironically I was very meticulous to get that accessory exactly oriented as you see it now. Other than the obvious problem it is damn near perfect. . . )

 

[Nosferatu]

Yeah, the sooner you deal with it, the better.

I'm not a huge fan of loctite on muzzle brakes. Rocksett is much better as it softens with water.

I personally use a dab of anti-seize and torque it properly. I haven't had one loosen yet.

 

[Koda]

I would take care of that asap than wait for the glue to harden. That looks more like a brake for a sound mitigation device than a suppressor?
Just curious, Why would you glue on a muzzle device? Isnt the point of the washers to get the timing right?

 

[lucusloc]

I would take care of that asap than wait for the glue to harden. That looks more like a brake for a sound mitigation device than a suppressor?
Just curious, Why would you glue on a muzzle device? Isnt the point of the washers to get the timing right?

Well, the idea was belt and suspenders as the device was never supposed to come off ever again. That idea played out just fine on all the other rifles I have done it on, but this one had an oops that I did not notice until it was too late. The break itself is a Plan B pattern, so it works with all kinds of stuff, but I am using it for a suppressor.

 

[Koda]

Well, the idea was belt and suspenders as the device was never supposed to come off ever again. That idea played out just fine on all the other rifles I have done it on, but this one had an oops that I did not notice until it was too late. The break itself is a Plan B pattern, so it works with all kinds of stuff, but I am using it for a suppressor.

I dont own any suppressors so I didnt know they made them to screw onto brakes, but thats a good idea. As for gluing... they say "never say never", now you know why they are designed to come off
When you put it back on there are ways to lock it down that will last forever without being permanent.

 

[Flopsweat]

Yeah, the sooner you deal with it, the better.

I'm not a huge fan of loctite on muzzle brakes. Rocksett is much better as it softens with water.

I personally use a dab of anti-seize and torque it properly. I haven't had one loosen yet.

Hear, hear! Anti-seize and a crush washer is the correct method. Done properly, it's not coming off even under rough use.

 

[lucusloc]

I dont own any suppressors so I didnt know they made them to screw onto brakes, but thats a good idea. As for gluing... they say "never say never", now you know why they are designed to come off
When you put it back on there are ways to lock it down that will last forever without being permanent.

Yeah, my main concern is fouling. I have already had a problem with a stuck suppressor taking the muzzle device off with it. The suppressor threads are a lot bigger than the muzzle device threads, and so can put up with a lot more torque before they give. Plan B adapters are suppose to mitigate this, but even they are not perfectly immune from fouling. I figured if I use the strong stuff on the muzzle device then even if the suppressor gets really fouled I can still crank on it to get it off without having to worry about the muzzle device coming with it. It was a good idea until I did it wrong. Lesson learned and I will be very much more careful the next time I put one on.

I do hear the comments about using something not as aggressive as loctight, but the whole idea was to make it nearly impossible to get it off, just because I do plan to slightly abuse at least some of these setups (still really want to get back into competition, for example). If a suppressor gets stuck again just grabbing a strap wrench to deal with the problem without having to pay the least bit of attention to the muzzle device is a pretty appealing way to fix things.

Yes, never-seize on the suppressor threads is also a really good idea, but like I said, belt and suspenders. Or maybe this is belt, suspenders on overalls at this point. This seemed more expedient than pinning and welding anyway.

 

[lucusloc]

Hear, hear! Anti-seize and a crush washer is the correct method. Done properly, it's not coming off even under rough use.

These muzzle breaks explicitly state not to use crush washers. I am not 100% sure why, but I think it has something to do with working loose over repeated tightening and loosening from the suppressor? Either way I am just following manufacture advice; shims, high torque and a thread holding compound of some sort. They did not specify which one, so I grabbed the strongest one I could reasonably find. Maybe I am exceeding expectations but I was seriously considering pinning and welding, or possibly braising and refinishing, and this seemed like less effort. And it was less effort, until my oops. Well, unless I had done that oops while welding or brazing, then I would be solving this problem with an angle grinder and a new muzzle device instead. . .

 

[Flopsweat]

These muzzle breaks explicitly state not to use crush washers. I am not 100% sure why, but I think it has something to do with working loose over repeated tightening and loosening from the suppressor? Either way I am just following manufacture advice; shims, high torque and a thread holding compound of some sort. They did not specify which one, so I grabbed the strongest one I could reasonably find. Maybe I am exceeding expectations but I was seriously considering pinning and welding, or possibly braising and refinishing, and this seemed like less effort. And it was less effort, until my oops. Well, unless I had done that oops while welding or brazing, then I would be solving this problem with an angle grinder and a new muzzle device instead. . .

Or just lop the end off and start over.

 

[Nosferatu]

Yeah, my main concern is fouling. I have already had a problem with a stuck suppressor taking the muzzle device off with it. The suppressor threads are a lot bigger than the muzzle device threads, and so can put up with a lot more torque before they give. Plan B adapters are suppose to mitigate this, but even they are not perfectly immune from fouling. I figured if I use the strong stuff on the muzzle device then even if the suppressor gets really fouled I can still crank on it to get it off without having to worry about the muzzle device coming with it. It was a good idea until I did it wrong. Lesson learned and I will be very much more careful the next time I put one on.

I do hear the comments about using something not as aggressive as loctight, but the whole idea was to make it nearly impossible to get it off, just because I do plan to slightly abuse at least some of these setups (still really want to get back into competition, for example). If a suppressor gets stuck again just grabbing a strap wrench to deal with the problem without having to pay the least bit of attention to the muzzle device is a pretty appealing way to fix things.

Yes, never-seize on the suppressor threads is also a really good idea, but like I said, belt and suspenders. Or maybe this is belt, suspenders on overalls at this point. This seemed more expedient than pinning and welding anyway.

Rocksett is still better. Has a higher temperature threshold, holds stronger, yet still removes with heat and water.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

These muzzle breaks explicitly state not to use crush washers. I am not 100% sure why,

Crush washer will almost never give good alignment, like why spend all that money machining threads with a relief cut and square shoulder on the barrel and buying a well machined muzzle device and stick the most wonkey (not a mule or donkey but close to that) chunk of bent stamped metal between them?

 

[Nosferatu]

Crush washer will almost never give good alignment,

The crush washer is for sealing and holding. Shims are for alignment.