Recommendations for body armor for threat protection against pistol and .223

[tkdguy]

assuming there is no civilian body armor that stops 308? Can anyone recommend a manufacture and preferable a design that provides groin and lateral/rib protection? Hopefully, there is a product that is reasonable for my 5'8" 160 pound frame at an athletic 70 years old?

Thanks.

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[American123]

assuming there is no civilian body armor that stops 308? Can anyone recommend a manufacture and preferable a design that provides groin and lateral/rib protection? Hopefully, there is a product that is reasonable for my 5'8" 160 pound frame at an athletic 70 years old?

Thanks.

Someone of your age and stature would be best served by a lightweight option.

But to answer your question, armor capabilities primary depends on bullet speed, not width. Many civilian offerings of armor will stop .308 no problem as long as it falls within their rating.

AR500 sells a good product and has had many people shoot the living daylights out of it to show it can hold up. I doubt you want to run a 16+ pound steel plate setup, but you could because it's cheaper.

They also offer ceramic level 4.

I personally went with the steel offering because I'm younger, the weight wasn't as much of an issue and I didn't want to have to worry about it cracking if I landed on it wrong and being worthless since I plan to have it for a while.

For my lightweight fiancé I got the 3.8 ish pound level 3 polyethylene plates. They are light enough to not break the back but provide level 3 rated protection which will stop .308 within their rating limit.

Lots of options and companies out there, but .308, although great, is not the end all be all to armor penetration.

Now, if you want groin protection from .308, good luck. As far as I'm aware, even the military primarily only run kevlar or another soft armor variant which is not specifically designed to stop rifle rounds.

 

[Ops]

ar500 usually has stuff on sale. but in all honesty 4 shots of 308 at 50 yards still probably kill you. just because something can stop a round the force behind it and where it hits could drop you just as fast.

I know my 308 pistol puts out 25 rds fast but I might try a D50 pmag when they come out. that's a lot of fun

 

[E4mafia]

Trust me, kevlar groin protection ain't worth the repeated sac taps you'll give yourself trying to run to cover or do any sort of rapid movement. All we wore was the cowboy collar and the general vest itself. Gunners had the shoulders (kevlar), crotch flaps were optional unless if they wanted to see us suck it up in training.

As far as I know of the average owner is fine with 3 or 3A. 4 is I believe the last line and most heaviest and pretty akin to what MIL uses.

Oh yeah and the lower back kevlar, by your tail bone is pretty helpful too if you plan on leaning on a lot of stuff.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

I'll second the recommendation for lightweight plates, preferably UHDPE. The biggest downside is that they're often not rated for M855.

Ceramic would be another option. Heavier than UHDPE, but better protection.

Last is steel. It offers good protection, but it's heavy and requires some form of spall protection.

Here are a couple of good companies to look at:

Engineered to Protect

World's Strongest Hard Armor Plates | RMA Armament

Ballistic Resistant Armor | HESCO https://www.hesco.com/products/armor

AR500 Armor - Body Armor, Ballistic Plates, and Trauma Plates

Hope this helps!

 

[CamoDeafie]

This question comes up more often recently... other than the desire for .308 protection, it has been answered a few times...

1) how often are you donning armor, training in it, and being acclimatized to armor wearing?
2) are you going to need it all the time, maybe you're visiting a place like Chicago or L.A. CA?

3) where are you going to store it? (Pretty important.... UV exposure, heat, humidity, mildew are all concerns for armor.)

4) equally as important as armor choices... do you have support in terms of a buddy or teammate that can provide cover fire and first aid, should you be downed?

5) how mobile are you planning to be?

I've made a couple carriers, and I also have an Eagle Industries Land CIRAS, in addition to a DBT Fast Attack PC (basic PC, no cummerbund)... but the biggest, most important thing are weight and quality of armor.

Do be aware there are some Level 4 plates (some with 4+ ratings) that requires a Level 3 or 3A soft armor to get the full Level 4 rating.. they can be identified by the use of terms like "In Conjunction with" or "Level 3 Standalone, 4 with soft armor backers" or some such.

As an aside, there are indeed a few police/civilian soft vests that are rated to stop .357 Magnums, 9mm Carbine, .30 Carbine, ammo, and can be had with either a 4x6 or 5x7 steel or titanium "trauma plate" thats rated to stop ammo up to .308 Win, with the highest level soft armor behind it.

This may be the lightest option, but it can be just as uncomfortable as a standard Mil style full armor package.

A minimalist plate carrier with standalone armor can be decent; but if you're asking for groin protection and the like, it maybe time to rethink your priorities... and maybe focus on getting used to sweating and not being able to breathe, or get airflow between your body and the wraparound vest.
Of course there are ways around that, such as cooling vests to be worn underneath... but thats additional bulk and weight that maybe not work that great with armor properly fitted.

Do steer clear of ebay armor sales... often they're damaged, obsolete, expired or just plain stolen armor (ITAR restrictions).

 

[CamoDeafie]

There's a reason that there's so many Mil armor designs... they've been testing and developing in the M.E. and SW Asia theaters for the last 18 years or so....sometimes good designs, sometimes terrible execution of designs, and often subject to the usual "lowest bidder" syndrome.

 

[thereddog]

This was interesting

 

[tkdguy]

From a practical standard for occasional civilian use what would be the best items to purchase? By example, facing civilian unrest, mobs, etc.? Thanks.

 

[SCARed]

I would just buy soft armor. Level 2 or 3a. Light weight, which means you'll be more inclined to wear it, and concealable under most clothing. It will also have more body coverage rather than just plates.
With level 3 or 4 your talking hard plates which will either be cheap and heavy cause they are steel, or expensive, light and thick because they are ceramic or polymer. Either way, they are difficult to conceal and more uncomfortable which means you'll be less inclined to wear them.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

I agree. Plates are more TEOTWAWKI, where soft armor can be worn under a jacket.

Of course, the correct answer is to get both!

 

[Camelfilter]

From a practical standard for occasional civilian use what would be the best items to purchase? By example, facing civilian unrest, mobs, etc.? Thanks.

Daypack with a plate.

Done.

 

[UnionMillsNW]

This was interesting

I actually followed the instructions in that video awhile ago. The plate stopped 38sp and 45 ACP but 357 and 308 went straight through. So pretty nifty protection against smaller handguns. I could probably post a thread with the pictures I took if anyone is interested.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

I actually followed the instructions in that video awhile ago. The plate stopped 38sp and 45 ACP but 357 and 308 went straight through. So pretty nifty protection against smaller handguns. I could probably post a thread with the pictures I took if anyone is interested.

I haven't had a chance to watch the video yet. What materials did they use?

Quite a few years back I remember reading about riots in Thailand where people were using x-ray film to make body armor. It looks like it was somewhat effective, but only against slow lead projectiles. I wonder if more layers would have stopped a 9mm?

The Box O' Truth #58 - Homemade X-Ray Film Bullet Proof Vests - The Box O' Truth

 

[UnionMillsNW]

It's just a welding blanket that has been lamented together with fiberglass resin (total cost around $20). The principle is the same as ceramic armor, that the energy of the bullet is dissipated into the layers of fabric. So you'll see the plate start to de-laminate after a few rounds. I don't have a 9mm but I have no doubt the plate I made (and made in the video) would stop the round.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

It sounds like that would work well for spall protection if glued to a steel plate.

 

[Alexx1401]

From a practical standard for occasional civilian use what would be the best items to purchase? By example, facing civilian unrest, mobs, etc.? Thanks.

Soft in the rating you want. Price depends on how "comfortable" you want to be and how much protection. The cheapest don't have as much "give" and are heavier. Last time I replaced mine more places were requiring proof of occupation too. For me I sent a picture of my work ID and they took that so they (Galls) may not really take it too seriously.
If you want to spend the bucks best is place that fits it to you, of course more money. Another good option is an external carrier. They run in the $100 range and make it FAR more comfortable. If you have a jacket on most will never even see that it's armor, looks like a shirt, and it's of course easy and fast to put on and off.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

Whatever you decide to get, the most important thing is to use it!

Wear it around the house, wear it while shooting or training, perhaps even wear it while exercising. Works the bugs out now, rather than find out something doesn't work for you when you need it the most.

I honestly feel like a hypocrite typing this, as these are things I need to do myself, but that doesn't change the truth of it.

You fight how you train, so you need to train how you fight.

 

[Camelfilter]

It's just a welding blanket that has been lamented together with fiberglass resin (total cost around $20). The principle is the same as ceramic armor, that the energy of the bullet is dissipated into the layers of fabric. So you'll see the plate start to de-laminate after a few rounds. I don't have a 9mm but I have no doubt the plate I made (and made in the video) would stop the round.

Didn't watch the video...low bandwidth ATM.

From the descriptive, it would be interesting to see if putting ceramic tile in there somehow would give rifle protection.

Seem to recall a fellow making rifle plate using ceramic tiles & testing them against 5.56 with decent results. His had an aluminum backing though. Denim laminated to the ceramic as an anti spal.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

Didn't watch the video...low bandwidth ATM.

From the descriptive, it would be interesting to see if putting ceramic tile in there somehow would give rifle protection.

Seem to recall a fellow making rifle plate using ceramic tiles & testing them against 5.56 with decent results. His had an aluminum backing though. Denim laminated to the ceramic as an anti spal.

A hybrid composite armor... I like it!

A lightweight metal backing plate to help prevent backface deformation, a layer of ceramic tile as ablative armor, and an external layer of fabric for spall prevention and to contain the tile debris.

It would take a lot of trial and error, but it would be a fun project!