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Washington Prefiled Bills

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But, if you’re not in that position and you want/need to buy, you have to attest or show proof of taking some unspecified training. Again, if it was like hunter’s safety with a set curriculum administered per a standard, I’d oppose it.
...
To rephrase so I'm sure I comprehend: you support an exemption for LEO when the class is basically a joke, but don't if there is actual content?

I totally get the frustration involved in taking a low value class, but to exempt LEOs validates the law requiring that class. Now, if one's position is that firearms purchases should require classes, then fine. But if not, why build a foundation of credibility for that law by exempting LEOs? The argument for exempting LEOs is they have already studied the material, but people who have not should study it (*). THIS logic inherently validates that law.

(*) I am a proponent of education and experience and all my stuff is always locked up tight in a gun safe unless I'm actively using it, transporting it to a range or for hunting, or actually in physical contact. Doesn't mean I agree with these laws even if I'm unaffected by them.
 

GWS

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It doesn't look that unreasonable, but what it really represents is a precedent that exempts LEO here from the requirements of a law. It represents the camel's nose under the tent. The slippery slope. Then it becomes an issue of magazine capacity, then semi-auto ownership and more. I lived through this back in California. Every new restriction on guns was coupled with "reasonable" exemptions for law enforcement.
That's not the way. There needs to be one law applied to everyone. If a law needs exemptions it is a bad law and needs to be repealed. Not worked around.
 
To rephrase so I'm sure I comprehend: you support an exemption for LEO when the class is basically a joke, but don't if there is actual content?

I totally get the frustration involved in taking a low value class, but to exempt LEOs validates the law requiring that class. Now, if one's position is that firearms purchases should require classes, then fine. But if not, why build a foundation of credibility for that law by exempting LEOs? The argument for exempting LEOs is they have already studied the material, but people who have not should study it (*). THIS logic inherently validates that law.

(*) I am a proponent of education and experience and all my stuff is always locked up tight in a gun safe unless I'm actively using it, transporting it to a range or for hunting, or actually in physical contact. Doesn't mean I agree with these laws even if I'm unaffected by them.
Its not an exemption, its a recognition that the training we get more than meets the “standard” as much as any made-up powerpoint being used to satisfy the requirement.

If the state wrote curriculum like hunter safety, I wouldn’t support an “exemption” to that class.
 
It doesn't look that unreasonable, but what it really represents is a precedent that exempts LEO here from the requirements of a law. It represents the camel's nose under the tent. The slippery slope. Then it becomes an issue of magazine capacity, then semi-auto ownership and more. I lived through this back in California. Every new restriction on guns was coupled with "reasonable" exemptions for law enforcement.
That's not the way. There needs to be one law applied to everyone. If a law needs exemptions it is a bad law and needs to be repealed. Not worked around.
No LEO is exempt from magazine capacity laws when off duty. When I travel to California, I have to carry 10 rounds. In Colorado, 15. When I’m on duty, I switch back to 17.
 

GWS

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No LEO is exempt from magazine capacity laws when off duty. When I travel to California, I have to carry 10 rounds. In Colorado, 15. When I’m on duty, I switch back to 17.
That's disingenuous. You don't live or work in California or Colorado. The 2 LEO's I personally know are both in California and both are exempt from mag restriction in California. They are able to buy Gen 4&5 Glocks HK VP9's and a host of other handguns that are not on the California "Safe Gun" roster. If you were an LEO in CA, you could have these privileges.
You would be in what would be viewed as the privileged class. That is the source of divisiveness and resentments.
 
That's disingenuous. You don't live or work in California or Colorado. The 2 LEO's I personally know are both in California and both are exempt from mag restriction in California. They are able to buy Gen 4&5 Glocks HK VP9's and a host of other handguns that are not on the California "Safe Gun" roster. If you were an LEO in CA, you could have these privileges.
You would be in what would be viewed as the privileged class. That is the source of divisiveness and resentments.
We’re hiring.
 
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Its not an exemption, its a recognition that the training we get more than meets the “standard” as much as any made-up powerpoint being used to satisfy the requirement.

If the state wrote curriculum like hunter safety, I wouldn’t support an “exemption” to that class.
The point I am making is that by exempting LEOs because they are trained, you are legitimizing the requirement for training on a Constitutional right. My argument isn't about whether the training is duplicative and annoying -- it obviously is all that -- it's about the implicit support for the law built into such an exemption.
 
OP
W
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The proposed law being discussed here is matter of factly unconstitutional, and merely self serving. Put aside for a moment the training argument and consider we are ALL citizens of the state of Washington. By agreeing or complying with these aggravations we all move further from our constitutional foundation and closer to that of Britan. Law makers pass unconstitutional laws all the time nothing prohibits or prevents it. We the people have the last word and if we don't get our collective $ht together we will fail our next several generations.

~Whitney


SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The rightof the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, orthe state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this sectionshall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporationsto organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.
 

bbbass

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Former member. Dead. Was in Eugene area. Other info got scrubbed after the fact, so that media and the likes doesn't pick up on the forum and accuse this forum of guilt by association.
:eek::eek::eek:

That must have been "bbbb".... (Before bbbass) ;)
 

Taco_lean

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But this site, along with other gun related sites, has gone increasingly looney and anti-cop. The other day, there were 3 anti-police threads in the top 10 most tread on subjects. As far as I know, no member on here who is in LE has done anything bad to anyone. No one is talking about the “common folk” member who lit his house on fire, shot at the responders, and then shot himself.
LEos love to talk about fraternity, brotherhood, thin blue line etc. People see all Leos as one body.

Via Red flags, and being willing to enforce them, all Leos have become the enforcement arm of an unconstitutional police state.
 

ma96782

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The proposed law being discussed here is matter of factly unconstitutional, and merely self serving. Put aside for a moment the training argument and consider we are ALL citizens of the state of Washington. By agreeing or complying with these aggravations we all move further from our constitutional foundation and closer to that of Britan. Law makers pass unconstitutional laws all the time nothing prohibits or prevents it. We the people have the last word and if we don't get our collective $ht together we will fail our next several generations.

~Whitney


SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The rightof the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, orthe state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this sectionshall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporationsto organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.
The problem is.....

Politicians don't read/understand the simple words...….

".....shall not be infringed."

And, on the WA State level...….

".....shall not be impaired."

Aloha, Mark
 
OP
W
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The problem is.....

Politicians don't read/understand the simple words...….

".....shall not be infringed."

And, on the WA State level...….

".....shall not be impaired."

Aloha, Mark
YES ^^^^^ This is exactly the problem..

What we should endeavor to move towards is convincing the LEO community (in this specific case) the proposed law divides and creates a special class. What it devolves to becomes "it doesn't affect me so........"

To put another way. How do you get rid of an unconstitutional law? By enforcing it.

This would mean every citizen including the LE community would have the same level of aggravation and perhaps they would advocate for removing such egregious infringements upon the rights of ALL citizens.

What say you in the LE community?

~Whitney
 
YES ^^^^^ This is exactly the problem..

What we should endeavor to move towards is convincing the LEO community (in this specific case) the proposed law divides and creates a special class. What it devolves to becomes "it doesn't affect me so........"

To put another way. How do you get rid of an unconstitutional law? By enforcing it.

This would mean every citizen including the LE community would have the same level of aggravation and perhaps they would advocate for removing such egregious infringements upon the rights of ALL citizens.

What say you in the LE community?

~Whitney
Again, how does it make someone a special class by recognizing they fulfill the requirements of a really a loose standard?

Say we refuse, as a populace, to not abide by or recognize the requirement, who and where do we get our guns from? If you sidestep a law or policy, there is no proof of harm and you have no standing. At worst, you break a law that gets affirmed and you pay a penalty in fines or liberty.

The best bet is to vote, which most gun owners in the state of WA don’t seem to do. You get the government you didn’t vote for, the appointed policy makers that favor their ideology, and the enforcement that will work in their philosophy.

For those of us who were factually economical about our leanings and got hired anyway, you get a certain level of non-compliance through plausible deniability and all sorts of .gov employee tricks.

But its funny when people who didn’t vote or didn’t get others to vote, then give LE the dick-eye for the enforcement of the law they didn’t fight. “We all failed by means of apathy....but how dare you NOT fix it!”
 
LEos love to talk about fraternity, brotherhood, thin blue line etc. People see all Leos as one body.

Via Red flags, and being willing to enforce them, all Leos have become the enforcement arm of an unconstitutional police state.
Its the instruments of the policies that the populace voted for. The thousands of LE in WA are no where near as many as the tens of thousands of thousands who don’t vote.
 

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