Washington Washington Democrats File Permit-to-Purchase Bill and More

[CamoDeafie]

The VAST majority. I see them doing just fine at stealing. If they can steal they can work

"I can't work with kleptomaniacs. They take everything literally"

 

[American123]

I've have a BS from University of Florida and also taught genetics there. And a PhD in Bio from Harvard. And taught genetics and cell bio there. And was on the faculty at U of MN, and taught Genetics, Cell Bio and graduate courses there. And served on the admissions committee to grad school in those two programs. And served as a grant reviewer for NSF. And in that era wrote countless letters of rec for students applying to med school, wanting to be doctors, which is a real job. And these days, in spite of having been out of academia for decades, I still often find myself writing letters for people applying for jobs in companies involved in horticulture .

There is nothing like teaching premed students for 15 years in three major universities to teach you the difference between an A and a C. And if you regularly write the letter that gets the guy or gal the job you probably don't need advice about what to read on the subject from someone who has apparently only read about it. I know enough about what gets people to the next stage in their careers that my letters or phone calls have sometimes achieved the epic. However, part of that is being good at choosing outstanding people to hire or work with and encourage in the first place. And knowing them well enough so I can make their virtues and personalities spring from the page. Which also involves writing better than most people writing recs do. The best jobs and professional schools usually attract multiple candidates with nearly straight A averages. So what else you have matters. The more flexible are even willing to overlook some Cs if they aren't in your major or in all the hard courses. Nobody is fooled or impressed by or wants to hire the guy who has straight As because he took only easy courses and also never ventured outside the norm and dared to explore. Not all As are created equal. Neither care all Cs.

If you major in stem fields what you study is usually directly relevant to the job you get, by the way. At least if its a field that has jobs. As for subjects like English or History -- there never have been many jobs in those fields.

I agree that for many jobs getting a college degree at all is not very relevant. And with the internet, you can learn a lot more by yourself than formerly. In addition, tuition has skyrocketed and become outrageous. I don't think its a good thing to take out loans to go to college. And with universities going woke and having entire departments that are all about pushing a radical woke and very non objective agenda, universities are losing credibility. Can't say I'm too happy with Harvard. The Harvard Corporation hired a black female president, Claudine Gay, who was quite clearly hired just for being a black woman, not for her scholarship or accomplishments. Came out looking like an antisemitic idiot in testifying before congress a couple weeks ago. And turned out she plagiarized her way through everything she ever wrote starting with her PhD thesis. Wouldn't advise anyone to go there until she gets fired. Sigh.

As and Cs dont mean quite what they used to. There has been massive grade inflation. Some universities, the average grade is A. When everyone gets As then what else you did matters more. These days I don't advise people who are interested in plant breeding to go to uni at all unless they they want to be academics. And these days, universities are increasingly toxic places. You can learn plant breeding in books and on the internet. And start doing it yourself with nothing more than a farm or garden or collaborative arrangement with a farmer.

So you are hyper focusing on specific programs in college that require a very specific GPA for advancement in those programs, but forgetting that the vast majority of college degree's are not those type, furthermore, most of the education happening isn't college/university, but children ages 5-18 before college.

I can't blame you for hyper focusing on the very specific field that you are experienced with, but it's important to note that it doesn't generalize for all education.

 

[Koda]

The VAST majority. I see them doing just fine at stealing. If they can steal they can work

The "vast majority" is a lot, but Id probably guess is more than most realize. Ive read several articles on more than one encampments that were very organized and had group rules to be part of. Last summer I drove thru downtown and saw a large encampment that had a BBQ grill going and several people standing around eating (good for them) as well as a very large solar panel erected getting lots of sun.... someone there had some electrical background and for what devices. Seems like that energy could be put towards a job, but I dont know all the reasons they cant find work.

 

[Alexx1401]

The "vast majority" is a lot, but Id probably guess is more than most realize. Ive read several articles on more than one encampments that were very organized and had group rules to be part of. Last summer I drove thru downtown and saw a large encampment that had a BBQ grill going and several people standing around eating (good for them) as well as a very large solar panel erected getting lots of sun.... someone there had some electrical background and for what devices. Seems like that energy could be put towards a job, but I dont know all the reasons they cant find work.

Even those who choose to live that way will NOT tolerate crap. Its fine to steal from others as ALL that stuff you saw was stolen. None of them bought it. Now if someone starts to take "their stuff"? This is where someone ends up found dead. Its a Lord of The Flies situation. Few of them could not take any of the jobs going begging. They just don't want to have to have a structured day. Its the same with them choosing to live like that since the places that will put them up often will NOT allow them to party. So they would rather live in a tent so they can get high and drunk. Again MANY places do not have these people lining the sidewalks and under freeways. Because they just do NOT allow it. Wife was back in the Midwest bit ago after her last parent died, tying up loose ends with family. Couple of the large cities they went though she said she was shocked how clean it all was. NO tents, NO beggars on corners with signs. Those places just will not tolerate it. This only happens when people allow it. Here its become a HUGE money making operation. Places get unreal amounts of money from gov to "help". 90% of the money goes right into pockets of those who run the place and is donated back to the law makers. Almost none makes it to actually help anyone so problem gets worse. So the people say they just need more millions and they can "fix this". Barnum would be green with envy at how easy this is.

 

[OldBroad44]

The VAST majority. I see them doing just fine at stealing. If they can steal they can work

I'm not so sure about this. A lot of drug addicts can operate somewhat competently after they are mostly coming down from their high, when they know they will soon need another dose of whatever, but not yet. Holding a job requires showing up sober and reliably day after day. And not being rude or aggressive with boss, coworkers, or customers. Even serious mental illnesses are often episodic. The mania or depression of manic depressive syndrome. Or the psychotic phases in schizophrenics. Either can be normal most of the time. But they can crash and burn their jobs, marriages, and destroy all their possessions in a single episode.

A lot of people are high functioning alcoholics. Many military men who love their careers drink heavily off the job and can go into alcoholic rages at night, beat or strangle their kids to unconsciousness, then go do a brilliant job at work the next day. And he was brilliant. And creative. And an excellent speaker and teacher. I tell enough stories about my father here that someone posted something about it sounding like I had an idyllic childhood. All I said was it had its good aspects. And it did. But I wouldnt have wished my childhood on my worst enemy. I had recurrent nightmares, flashbacks and PTSD until I was 50. But my father wasn't a drinker at all until he joined the military in WWII. He ultimately died of alcoholism. He was retired by then but only 64. His last assignment was the Pentagon. The alcoholism was probably why he didn't make general. He was buried in Arlington Cemetery.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

...This only happens when people allow it. Here its become a HUGE money making operation. Places get unreal amounts of money from gov to "help". 90% of the money goes right into pockets of those who run the place and is donated back to the law makers. Almost none makes it to actually help anyone so problem gets worse. So the people say they just need more millions and they can "fix this". Barnum would be green with envy at how easy this is.

100% to this above. Not long ago we had a new homeless move in nearby. All day long crack. Next day meth. 10" knife attacking wood. Every person walks by jumps out of bushes and begs. Steals stuff at night. Urinates in open. Trespass everywhere. Entire block had garbage by the second day. Just horribly nasty due to only one person. Wasn't my property so what I could do was limited. But problem has been addressed.

This person 0% chance they would go to any sort of shelter. Their whole life is drugs. Stealing stuff, getting handouts so they can get more drugs. There is nothing else for them and the last place they would go is a shelter. Yet there are many many millions in Portland going to shelters and non-profits which do very little to solve the problem. There is even a 1% income tax for business and poeple (over a certain income) that can only go to homeless. The vast majority of problem homeless are like this nasty druggie.

 

[OldBroad44]

So you are hyper focusing on specific programs in college that require a very specific GPA for advancement in those programs, but forgetting that the vast majority of college degree's are not those type, furthermore, most of the education happening isn't college/university, but children ages 5-18 before college.

I can't blame you for hyper focusing on the very specific field that you are experienced with, but it's important to note that it doesn't generalize for all education.

Good point about my not talking about K through 12, @American123 . I never taught in K through 12, so only know about grading from the point of view of the kid getting the grade, not the teacher giving them. And I didn't talk with other kids about grades. I just considered tests a contest between me and the test where I wanted a perfect score. Outside school, my friendships were based on sand lot baseball and other sports.

My familiarity with grades and grading in college is not limited to my own special area. But it was pretty much limited to stem fields. From talking with friends in English, history, or writing, I gathered the grades outside stem are often seriously subjective. And the teachers were all male, and were reluctant to give top marks to women. They wanted to think of writing well and powerfully as a masculine thing I think. This was late 60s. That sort of discrimination did not take place in the sciences or math as best I could tell. The tests were usually problems. Little room for subjectivity in grading. Women usually set the curve on every test. However, if you were a woman setting the curve in a stem field in those days you might get called in by the dept head and told you would never be given a job in the field no matter if you were setting all the curves. Then usually, discouraged, the woman would change her major. Until I came along. In my case it was the Undergrad School dean who blocked my registration until I came to see him. It didnt work. I left the room still a zoology major. Then, a few years later, with a barely printed PhD written in Latin which I couldn't read tucked behind my wet ears, I joined the Genetics faculty at University of Minnesota. And when I gave my first a course it was the first time I had ever heard a women scientist doing that. So F you, Evil Mean Dean of the South.

When it comes to the difference between an A and a C in stem fields, I stand by all I said. And I have hired and supervised people outside the academic context. And I still write effective letters of rec for people for jobs both commercial or academic. Plant breeders, sales managers, product development managers, vegetable production managers, etc. However, when it comes to the difference between an A and a C in non-stem subjects, with the woke agenda being pushed in so many fields, its hard for me to know whether going to university at all means anything. I think increasingly it doesnt. For example, I've heard business people express cynicism about MBAs and say they would rather have managers who start with jobs at the bottom and work their way up in a company than guys with university degrees presuming to manage companies in industries they know nothing about. One of those is Elon Musk.

 

[OldBroad44]

What was great about it?!

Much less than many people thought at the time, obviously. It was hugely counterproductive in many ways.

 

[Old Dog]

@OldBroad44
All I will say now is that I've gained a huge amount of respect for you based on your experiences and education. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were one of my sisters or cousins -- remarkably similar experiences. Coming from a family of educators (both parents, several uncles and aunts) and most of my six siblings and twelve cousins, I'm acutely aware of the experiences of females working in science, technology, engineering and mathematics during the '50s, '60s and '70s.

As far as the actual thread topic, I'm really starting to think that the "permit to purchase" will be a reality in Washington state.

It should seem apparent that most gun control legislation going forward is going to be on the state levels; given the recent results in Illinois, NY, Oregon, Washington, California, Maine, Colorado -- we know that the rest of the states will be emboldened -- and shooting for the moon -- based on 2022, 2023 and 2024.

 

[Nosferatu]

Does 10 day delay apply to purchases of firearms outside of WA by WA residents?

Of course. The laws in the buyers state of legal residence must be followed no matter where the purchase happens.

 

[arakboss]

Of course. The laws in the buyers state of legal residence must be followed no matter where the purchase happens.

That is not always the case.

 

[Nosferatu]

That is not always the case.

Such as?

 

[arakboss]

Such as?

When Oregon Resident buys a firearm in WA the FFL doesn't use FICS for background check. When WA resident buys a gun in Oregon, The FFL doesn't use WA State Patrol for background check.

Both of these are required by buyer's resident state law.


Edit: I was wrong about WA law requiring Oregon FFL having to use WA State Patrol for background check when
selling to WA resident. Here is what is required.


RCW 9.41.122
Out-of-state purchasing.
Residents of Washington may purchase rifles and shotguns in a state other than Washington: PROVIDED, That such residents conform to the applicable provisions of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968, Title IV, Pub. L. 90-351 as administered by the United States secretary of the treasury: AND PROVIDED FURTHER, That such residents are eligible to purchase or possess such weapons in Washington and in the state in which such purchase is made: AND PROVIDED FURTHER, That when any part of the transaction takes place in Washington , including, but not limited to, internet sales, such residents are subject to the procedures and background checks required by this chapter.

 

[American123]

Good point about my not talking about K through 12, @American123 . I never taught in K through 12, so only know about grading from the point of view of the kid getting the grade, not the teacher giving them. And I didn't talk with other kids about grades. I just considered tests a contest between me and the test where I wanted a perfect score. Outside school, my friendships were based on sand lot baseball and other sports.

My familiarity with grades and grading in college is not limited to my own special area. But it was pretty much limited to stem fields. From talking with friends in English, history, or writing, I gathered the grades outside stem are often seriously subjective. And the teachers were all male, and were reluctant to give top marks to women. They wanted to think of writing well and powerfully as a masculine thing I think. This was late 60s. That sort of discrimination did not take place in the sciences or math as best I could tell. The tests were usually problems. Little room for subjectivity in grading. Women usually set the curve on every test. However, if you were a woman setting the curve in a stem field in those days you might get called in by the dept head and told you would never be given a job in the field no matter if you were setting all the curves. Then usually, discouraged, the woman would change her major. Until I came along. In my case it was the Undergrad School dean who blocked my registration until I came to see him. It didnt work. I left the room still a zoology major. Then, a few years later, with a barely printed PhD written in Latin which I couldn't read tucked behind my wet ears, I joined the Genetics faculty at University of Minnesota. And when I gave my first a course it was the first time I had ever heard a women scientist doing that. So F you, Evil Mean Dean of the South.

When it comes to the difference between an A and a C in stem fields, I stand by all I said. And I have hired and supervised people outside the academic context. And I still write effective letters of rec for people for jobs both commercial or academic. Plant breeders, sales managers, product development managers, vegetable production managers, etc. However, when it comes to the difference between an A and a C in non-stem subjects, with the woke agenda being pushed in so many fields, its hard for me to know whether going to university at all means anything. I think increasingly it doesnt. For example, I've heard business people express cynicism about MBAs and say they would rather have managers who start with jobs at the bottom and work their way up in a company than guys with university degrees presuming to manage companies in industries they know nothing about. One of those is Elon Musk.

I agree with you that grades used to matter, except that they've long become participation trophies, even at Ivy league schools. If you read up on the average grades of college students, the overwhelming trend is that everyone gets an A. The quality of educational product has very clearly diminished in favor of making students feel better about their participation. I experienced this in a master program in 2017. Students who were clearly below a standard deviation in intelligence were still getting high marks, at least a 3.5 or better, because the program emphasized students passing the masters program and getting into the workforce.

I also don't put much stock in college education anymore considering many of these people will, with a straight face, refer to a man as a woman.

 

[shibbershabber]

Itll happen.

Like water eroding the shore... it will eventually win.

We are all too bubbleguming stupid to do anything about it. Too lazy to organize, Too cheap to fund 2A groups, Just like EVERY. OTHER. TIME.

Sure, plenty of us are active.... but far far far too many are apathetic and ignorant fools who dont pay attention cuz its not on the teeeveeee

 

[OldBroad44]

I also don't put much stock in college education anymore considering many of these people will, with a straight face, refer to a man as a woman.

Right!

 

[OldBroad44]

@OldBroad44
All I will say now is that I've gained a huge amount of respect for you based on your experiences and education. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were one of my sisters or cousins -- remarkably similar experiences. Coming from a family of educators (both parents, several uncles and aunts) and most of my six siblings and twelve cousins, I'm acutely aware of the experiences of females working in science, technology, engineering and mathematics during the '50s, '60s and '70s.

As far as the actual thread topic, I'm really starting to think that the "permit to purchase" will be a reality in Washington state.

It should seem apparent that most gun control legislation going forward is going to be on the state levels; given the recent results in Illinois, NY, Oregon, Washington, California, Maine, Colorado -- we know that the rest of the states will be emboldened -- and shooting for the moon -- based on 2022, 2023 and 2024.

Thanks @Old Dog . Sounds like I'd be right at home among your women folk.

At least we have the SCOTUS on our side at this point. Some of the crud being passed at the state level is going to fail at the federal level. And the Oregon permit to buy was finally rejected by the Oregon Supreme court. It originally passed by such a small margin an initiative might fail in a second attempt. Especially since most people have found out it meant they won't be able to buy a gun at all any time soon once it took effect.

 

[gopherbaroque]

When Oregon Resident buys a firearm in WA the FFL doesn't use FICS for background check. When WA resident buys a gun in Oregon, The FFL doesn't use WA State Patrol for background check.

Both of these are required by buyer's resident state law.


Edit: I was wrong about WA law requiring Oregon FFL having to use WA State Patrol for background check when
selling to WA resident. Here is what is required.


RCW 9.41.122
Out-of-state purchasing.
Residents of Washington may purchase rifles and shotguns in a state other than Washington: PROVIDED, That such residents conform to the applicable provisions of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968, Title IV, Pub. L. 90-351 as administered by the United States secretary of the treasury: AND PROVIDED FURTHER, That such residents are eligible to purchase or possess such weapons in Washington and in the state in which such purchase is made: AND PROVIDED FURTHER, That when any part of the transaction takes place in Washington , including, but not limited to, internet sales, such residents are subject to the procedures and background checks required by this chapter.

In the RCW, I see requirement for WA resident:
a) follow federal law
b) would be eligible to conduct transaction in both WA and other state
c) if part of transaction happens in WA, then need to follow WA process

If one goes outside WA to obtain a rifle/shotgun, I am not seeing how the third part would apply.
Perhaps calling ahead to arrange order activates the third clause?
My take is that "part of transaction taking place in WA" comes into play when you arrange shipping to WA FFL for local pick-up, rather than yourself going to out of state FFL.

 

[arakboss]

In the RCW, I see requirement for WA resident:
a) follow federal law
b) would be eligible to conduct transaction in both WA and other state
c) if part of transaction happens in WA, then need to follow WA process

If one goes outside WA to obtain a rifle/shotgun, I am not seeing how the third part would apply.
Perhaps calling ahead to arrange order activates the third clause?
My take is that "part of transaction taking place in WA" comes into play when you arrange shipping to WA FFL for local pick-up, rather than yourself going to out of state FFL.

Bingo. That is my take as well.

 

[MarlaSinger]

Exactly but they still went after and continue to go after every last attendee they can find. 2A rebels will not be afforded the same immunity that the protected class thugs get.

I agree, they will use our rights against us to further their restrictions on taking away our rights. I really wish the sheeple would wake up and realize the government will not take care of them if they allow disarming the country to progress.