Police Say Flex Your Rights DVD is Evidence of Criminal Activity

Gunner3456 · Dec 10, 2011

twoclones said:
That's pretty much how I react toward a possible encounter with police. Avoid them if at all possible.

Exactly, and it comes from experience. I have a squeaky clean record too, and a CHL. It's not about being bad. It's about them.

Gunner3456 · Dec 10, 2011

"Botched Paramilitary Police Raids:
An Epidemic of "Isolated Incidents"

Botched Paramilitary Police Raids Map and Descriptions

Gunner3456 · Dec 10, 2011

By Radley Balko
"Americans have long maintained that a man's home is his castle and that he has the right to defend it from unlawful intruders. Unfortunately, that right may be disappearing."

<broken link removed>

Gunner3456 · Dec 10, 2011

Cops on Camera - YouTube

Kevatc · Dec 10, 2011

Riot said:
The rest of this cop bashing crap is uncalled for, though.

Most people want to be cops to serve the public and protect the innocent. If you don't believe this then YOU can sit in a corner with a dunce cap (but you don't have to put it on your head, I'm sure you can find another place to put it).

Nevertheless, most of the other advice is sound. If you don't have a need to tell the police anything, then don't.

Agreed, the cop bashing is uncalled for and is ignorant to the "nth degree". Also, agreed that the advice is good.

Gunner3456 · Dec 10, 2011

Kevatc said:
Agreed, the cop bashing is uncalled for and is ignorant to the "nth degree". Also, agreed that the advice is good.

I see. We're posting real concerns with real facts and links to sources of actual happenings, but they didn't happen and they don't happen and all is well. Can I have a puff of that?

RB87 · Dec 11, 2011

Kevatc said:
Agreed, the cop bashing is uncalled for and is ignorant to the "nth degree". Also, agreed that the advice is good.

Five or so years ago I would have agreed with you. However, I've seen and read about too much corruption to ignore how out of control in deeds and attitude most police are. Most just don't ever turn off the "us vs them" mindset. When you work to instill pure fear in all citizens (er civilians?) you shouldn't be surprised when folks don't like you, don't trust you and go out of their way to avoid you. Golden rule/reciprocity and all that.

My most eye opening experience with cops/authorities was serving on a marion county grand jury a few years back. The ADA gal whose case we shot down (part of it anyway) sarcastically told several of us a couple of days later, (paraphrasing) "I heard you guys rejected part of my case the other day. I'll take that under advisement. See we do listen to you guys". Its been awhile but I will never forget the look she gave me and others and her tone. It was one of sarcastic anger, of "how dare you take away my bargaining chip you clueless serfs". It was a unanimous ruling IIRC, we rejected her charge against a man (who had gotten in a fight) of inciting a riot. The cop's testimony was one of "we were scared for our safety among 50+ people watching the fight as we went in to break up the fight". It was frivilous baloney, all meant to intimidate the accused into a plea. The line that "you can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich" was proven correct to me by the time my service was up.

Gunner3456 · Dec 11, 2011

RB87 said:
Five or so years ago I would have agreed with you. However, I've seen and read about too much corruption to ignore how out of control in deeds and attitude most police are. Most just don't ever turn off the "us vs them" mindset. When you work to instill pure fear in all citizens (er civilians?) you shouldn't be surprised when folks don't like you, don't trust you and go out of their way to avoid you. Golden rule/reciprocity and all that.

My most eye opening experience with cops/authorities was serving on a marion county grand jury a few years back. The ADA gal whose case we shot down (part of it anyway) sarcastically told several of us a couple of days later, (paraphrasing) "I heard you guys rejected part of my case the other day. I'll take that under advisement. See we do listen to you guys". Its been awhile but I will never forget the look she gave me and others and her tone. It was one of sarcastic anger, of "how dare you take away my bargaining chip you clueless serfs". It was a unanimous ruling IIRC, we rejected her charge against a man (who had gotten in a fight) of inciting a riot. The cop's testimony was one of "we were scared for our safety among 50+ people watching the fight as we went in to break up the fight". It was frivilous baloney, all meant to intimidate the accused into a plea. The line that "you can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich" was proven correct to me by the time my service was up.

That is so well said. I've posted here before that I was falsely accused of something almost 2 years ago. It was a LEO relative - a family spat and he used his position to try to get me. When the Deputies (I live in the county) arrived to serve me, they already knew I had a CHL and took it on the spot. They punched it full of holes and wrote "VOID" on it with a felt tip pen. They told me I had 12 hours to remove all guns from my home. Everything. They took my Glock 23 carry piece on the spot and I didn't see it again for almost a year.

I hired an attorney of course and it cost me a fortune. I won outright before trial on a motion for dismissal. The cop had misrepresented evidence including a written document to the court. He flat out lied to the court and fortunately I proved it.

I was scared. I spent a fortune on an attorney and I thank my God that I could afford it. That attorney is my hero because he simply outsmarted and cornered the cop and made a fool of him.

AFTER all of that, I had to pay the attorney to get my CHL back even though I had been cleared. It took 13 months to get it back.

DO YOU THINK WE HAVE A "SHALL ISSUE" STATE IN OREGON? WRONG! Our statute says the sheriff "shall issue" UNLESS HE HAS REASON TO BELIEVE YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE A CHL!!!!!

That leaves it discretionary for the sheriff, and if he has a LEO pal who tells him you shouldn't have one, he can drag his feet and you'll have to take the bistard to court to get your CHL, if you're lucky!!!!

They are a gang!!!

Do you think that if you get a driving ticket, go to court, and it's you word against the cop that you have a prayer of winning? No, of course you don't. The system is rigged to collect money. Well, do you think that if you go to court on a serious charge and you're innocent but it's your word against a lying cop that you have a prayer of winning?

Well I did but it was a genius attorney who figured out how to prove that a document used as evidence was misrepresented by a cop. Period. I mean he proved it, not that it "might" have been misrepresented. I got lucky.

Well, now that I know that a cop will lie, that his partners will back him up and that a sheriff will help him harass me over my CHL when it's all over and that I need big bucks to get it back, I FKN HATE COPS AND THE LEGAL SYSTEM AND I'LL NEVER TRUST THEM AGAIN.

Even though in the end I won everything, it cost me about $100,000 and a year and a half of my life because THOSE COPS ARE A GANG OF FKN LIARS WHO STICK TOGETHER LIKE THEY HAD SH%T ON THEM FOR GLUE.

They are nothing but a gang of a different sort and I'm more afraid of them than I am of a drug gang who I can at least shoot to defend myself if needed.

Grunwald · Dec 11, 2011

Gunner, did anything happen to your relative cop for presenting false evidence? Did he not purger himself in court?

Redcap · Dec 11, 2011

The cop supporters are people that haven't had a bad experience...yet.

Father of four · Dec 11, 2011

Well said Gunner.

And as usual...we hear nothing from the good LEO's. Are any left?

Gunner3456 · Dec 11, 2011

Grunwald said:
Gunner, did anything happen to your relative cop for presenting false evidence? Did he not purger himself in court?

I sued and settled out of court. Part of the settlement was that I not go after his job. I had various reasons for agreeing to that including some children in the family who didn't need an unemployed father. I taught him a lesson and scared him good.

I believe I could have gotten his police certification. He's a very high-ranking member of the department.

Also, I sure didn't want to spend another 2 years in a lawsuit. Freedom of my time and peace of mind are precious to me.

Gunner3456 · Dec 11, 2011

Father of four said:
Well said Gunner.

And as usual...we hear nothing from the good LEO's. Are any left?

Of course, and I think some depends on a department's culture. We seem to have a couple of good guys on here.

But anytime I see a cop my whole being goes into avoidance mode. I actually feel fear.

Gunner3456 · Dec 11, 2011

BTW, I may be safer in that sizable town now than I was before. If I got pulled over, before I even handed over my license I'd go into accusing mode, saying something like "you're pulling me over to harass me for what happened between me and *****, aren't you? You have orders to do that, don't you? Are you looking for a big dose of what he got?"

I'll bet he'd decide he'd better let me go when he found out who I am, because he'd know I'd make official complaints and accuse it in court and he doesn't need that hassle.

Gunner3456 · Dec 11, 2011

Redcap said:
The cop supporters are people that haven't had a bad experience...yet.

You know, we aren't born distrusting cops. The cops have done that to me.

When I was little, (and I grew up here) my parents always told me that a cop would help me if I was lost or in trouble. I was told to have someone call the police for me and they would help me and if needed, bring me home. I believed that a cop was the one I could truly trust the most to take care of me.

Kevatc · Dec 11, 2011

Gunner3456 said:
That is so well said. I've posted here before that I was falsely accused of something almost 2 years ago. It was a LEO relative - a family spat and he used his position to try to get me. When the Deputies (I live in the county) arrived to serve me, they already knew I had a CHL and took it on the spot. They punched it full of holes and wrote "VOID" on it with a felt tip pen. They told me I had 12 hours to remove all guns from my home. Everything. They took my Glock 23 carry piece on the spot and I didn't see it again for almost a year.

I hired an attorney of course and it cost me a fortune. I won outright before trial on a motion for dismissal. The cop had misrepresented evidence including a written document to the court. He flat out lied to the court and fortunately I proved it.

I was scared. I spent a fortune on an attorney and I thank my God that I could afford it. That attorney is my hero because he simply outsmarted and cornered the cop and made a fool of him.

AFTER all of that, I had to pay the attorney to get my CHL back even though I had been cleared. It took 13 months to get it back.

DO YOU THINK WE HAVE A "SHALL ISSUE" STATE IN OREGON? WRONG! Our statute says the sheriff "shall issue" UNLESS HE HAS REASON TO BELIEVE YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE A CHL!!!!!

That leaves it discretionary for the sheriff, and if he has a LEO pal who tells him you shouldn't have one, he can drag his feet and you'll have to take the bistard to court to get your CHL, if you're lucky!!!!

They are a gang!!!

Do you think that if you get a driving ticket, go to court, and it's you word against the cop that you have a prayer of winning? No, of course you don't. The system is rigged to collect money. Well, do you think that if you go to court on a serious charge and you're innocent but it's your word against a lying cop that you have a prayer of winning?

Well I did but it was a genius attorney who figured out how to prove that a document used as evidence was misrepresented by a cop. Period. I mean he proved it, not that it "might" have been misrepresented. I got lucky.

Well, now that I know that a cop will lie, that his partners will back him up and that a sheriff will help him harass me over my CHL when it's all over and that I need big bucks to get it back, I FKN HATE COPS AND THE LEGAL SYSTEM AND I'LL NEVER TRUST THEM AGAIN.

Even though in the end I won everything, it cost me about $100,000 and a year and a half of my life because THOSE COPS ARE A GANG OF FKN LIARS WHO STICK TOGETHER LIKE THEY HAD SH%T ON THEM FOR GLUE.

They are nothing but a gang of a different sort and I'm more afraid of them than I am of a drug gang who I can at least shoot to defend myself if needed.

It's obvious that you had a very bad experience and therefor it taints your perceptions of all cops. This is understandable to a degree ... human nature and all. However, I think you are painting with a pretty broad brush. I read a story recently about a US soldier getting life for killing some Afghan people. Does that make all soldiers bad? Not from my perspective but it might from an Afghani perspective. All I know is I am willing to judge each individual on their own merits rather than an entire profession based on the behavior of one person. Perhaps you should take a puff of whatever it is you think I am smoking. I prefer that over broad brushed cynicism.

Gunner3456 · Dec 11, 2011

Kevatc said:
It's obvious that you had a very bad experience and therefor it taints your perceptions of all cops. This is understandable to a degree ... human nature and all. However, I think you are painting with a pretty broad brush. I read a story recently about a US soldier getting life for killing some Afghan people. Does that make all soldiers bad? Not from my perspective but it might from an Afghani perspective. All I know is I am willing to judge each individual on their own merits rather than an entire profession based on the behavior of one person. Perhaps you should take a puff of whatever it is you think I am smoking. I prefer that over broad brushed cynicism.

You, sir, are entitled to believe anything you wish.

The problem with being too trusting and not wising up is that you can get blindsided.

If you are a cop you probably have nothing to worry about because your pals and the system will protect you. If not, you may be in for a rude awakening.

BrentN · Dec 11, 2011

The soldier is paying for his mistake by spending life in prison. The cop aparrently has the taxpayers paying for his mistake. The broad brush may come from the fact that a legitimate police force would remove a perjuring cop on their own by firing him. Good apples protecting the bad one? Give me a break. Nobody wants this type of Lie Enforcement Officer patrolling the street. And there's worry about his family and kids? Let them ask their lying daddy why there's no presents under the tree. Hey, I generally support the police, but when the police don't police themselves, I lose faith.

Gunner3456 · Dec 12, 2011

BrentN said:
The soldier is paying for his mistake by spending life in prison. The cop aparrently has the taxpayers paying for his mistake. The broad brush may come from the fact that a legitimate police force would remove a perjuring cop on their own by firing him.

Brent, I sued him personally, not the department because what he did was off-duty and frankly, I wanted him to pay his own legal fees, which he couldn't afford. Some cops did lie for him, and the sheriff harassed me for my CHL, but once my attorney proved beyond any doubt that his evidence was fabricated, nothing could help him. Then we settled rather than going to trial because I just wanted to teach him a big lesson, and to assure he'd never mess with me and probably not do that to anyone again.

And there's worry about his family and kids? Let them ask their lying daddy why there's no presents under the tree. Hey, I generally support the police, but when the police don't police themselves, I lose faith.

I know. But I love those kids and I'm not vindictive. I got my pound of flesh and then some. Mission accomplished.

You know, when I was in the 7th grade around here, a bully tormented me until I'd had enough. Some kids were beginning to call me "chicken." One day I'd had enough and I called that bully out in front of a bunch of kids and told him to meet me in "the alley" after school. That alley was a couple of blocks down the street and it was where most fights happened.

Well, he was a lot bigger and older than I and he beat the crap out of me. However, I wouldn't quit, and I did give him a black eye, a bloody nose and a fat lip. My mother on the other hand had to throw my clothes away because I bled so much from my nose and mouth and a cut above my eye.

Finally a college kid stepped in and said "that's enough" and broke it up. He asked me if I was OK and then he said "you've sure got guts, kid." Those were among the sweetest words I've ever heard.

IMHO I won. Not the fight, but my honor and the right to never be picked on again. There was a big crowd watching that fight because word had gone through the school. I got patted on the back at school the next day and told things like "I never knew you were that tough" Music to my ears, even though I could hardly see from swollen black eyes, LOL.

No one ever even thought about starting a fight with me again, and I hope that's what happens with PD.