pmags wont seat

[Quartermaster]

Nope

Call magpul. I'm sure they'll swap them out. 1 (877) 462-4785

 

[308]

Being a simpleton, I'd probably add a strip scotch tape to to the mag in various areas until I found the hangup spot. The take a claw hammer to it

 

[Koda]

Call magpul. I'm sure they'll swap them out. 1 (877) 462-4785

I thought about that, but shipping will be roughly 40% the cost of the mags

 

[Gonzales]

This is an old issue with the M3's over travel stop. Nothing wrong with the mags. You just have an old style AR lower. Magpul will just have you file down the over travel stop a bit on each mag until they seat better.

They do occasionally futz up their mags though, so I'd still contact them. I have a couple 10-round M3's that are total crap. Maybe they will send me new ones. When loaded, they poof out, for lack of a better term. The body and the lips. The mag won't fit, no mater how hard you try.

 

[Quartermaster]

I thought about that, but shipping will be roughly 40% the cost of the mags

What part of Oregon are you in?

 

[Koda]

This is an old issue with the M3's over travel stop. Nothing wrong with the mags. You just have an old style AR lower. Magpul will just have you file down the over travel stop a bit on each mag until they seat better.

They do occasionally futz up their mags though, so I'd still contact them. I have a couple 10-round M3's that are total crap. Maybe they will send me new ones. When loaded, they poof out, for lack of a better term. The body and the lips. The mag won't fit, no mater how hard you try.

I was wondering... Thats why I started this thread.

I dont mind filing down the overtravel stop, would actually be easier than dealing with any returns exchanges.

 

[Koda]

What part of Oregon are you in?

Portland area
Is Magpul local?

 

[Quartermaster]

Portland area
Is Magpul local?

No, but how about this? I'll trade you for two out of my stock, mostly gen 2, windowed or not, and I'll deal with the issue. We can check fit and function. I have Magpul dummy rounds.

 

[Vorpalis]

Simplify the problem: Remove the upper from the lower and then try seating the mags in the lower. This removes a lot of variables, and lets you see what the mag catch and bolt stop are doing.

 

[Koda]

No, but how about this? I'll trade you for two out of my stock, mostly gen 2, windowed or not, and I'll deal with the issue? We can check fit and function. I have Magpul dummy rounds.

Why would you want bad mags?

Let me think about it because im going to hang out this weekend with a couple of AR friends and was going to let them see if they fit their rifles they would swap with me. I also dont mind grinding the overtravel stop down as suggested.

 

[Koda]

Simplify the problem: Remove the upper from the lower and then try seating the mags in the lower. This removes a lot of variables, and lets you see what the mag catch and bolt stop are doing.

Did that too, same problem. The issue is the overtravel stop on the mag prevents proper insertion

 

[Quartermaster]

Why would you want bad mags?

Let me think about it because im going to hang out this weekend with a couple of AR friends and was going to let them see if they fit their rifles they would swap with me. I also dont mind grinding the overtravel stop down as suggested.

Just offering an option. I can fix most things, and wouldn't hesitate to give it the old college try for other supporting members and volunteer.

 

[Koda]

Just offering an option. I can fix most things, and wouldn't hesitate to give it the old college try for other supporting members and volunteers.

Appreciate the offer, I wouldnt want to leave you with bad mags in trade though... Id probably offer you one of them in trade for your ability to fix both, something like that. Im going to see if they fit my friends rifles though, I dont like to modify things if I dont have to but think grinding the OT stop down would be easy so I could end up doing that too if they dont work in my friends rifles.

 

[Gonzales]

Gen 2's will work well for you. The Black M3's can be a pain.

Many of the problems with the black M3's can be fixed with a file. Even mine. I was told to open them up and file down the ribs on the inside of the mags!

*Lessons learned.

1. Black M3's use a soft and flexible plastic / polymer.
2. All black M3's should come with a file. Correction.. All Magpul mags.
3. "Sand" colored M3's may be harder and less flexible.
4. AR lower manufactures pandered to Magpul. They changed their lower designs (opened up magwell), instead of making Magpul change their molds.
5. M2's work better in many AR lowers.
6. For some reason I still want to like their mags?
7. I own a zillion of them for my range toys.
8. I also own quite a few true USGI/STANAG mags for my other "toys."

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

do they seat with the bolt open?7

Are the mags fully loaded or empty when attempting to seat them?
If loaded, remove a couple rounds and try again.

I apologize in advance if I'm being Captain Obvious

i was thinkin the same. do they seat with the bolt locked back? ive had 31 rounds in a p mag once and it wouldnt seat with the bolt closed. took it out and was just fine. i load my mags to 29rounds now anyway.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

A great argument against leaving new mags in the packaging unless they are for re-sale; good thing you took them out and tested them!

 

[titsonritz]

From Magpul:

It's indeed called an over-insertion stop, but the reality is that it serves that function in ways that aren't as obvious as the name implies. Yes, it prevents over-insertion on an open bolt reload, but the M2 had such a mechanism, also...just on the front of the mag. Due to HK adopting the SA-80 magwell front dimension, the front stop had to be lowered, like on the E-Mag. The rear stop serves that function on the M3, but the reality is...you really have to be a gorilla to over-insert even an E-Mag into an AR, which has no stop at all, let alone an M2. The actual reload insertion part was something that did indeed happen once in a blue moon, but preventing this was very secondary to the primary functions of the stop.

The primary function of the stop is in impacts to the bottom of the magazine in loaded weapon drops, or practical applications of this, such as going prone in a less than controlled manner, magazine monopod bearing down on the rifle, impacts during handling, etc. Lots of folks want to emphasize feed lip drops, and they are very important, but the reality is that impacts to the bottom of the magazine when in the rifle are probably more likely and more violent due to the weight of the rifle. USGI mags and other metal mags can buckle the mag catch area under such impacts, catching the follower or round stack and rendering the magazine completely non-functional, and polymer designs without some form of an effective stop (polymer of any kind will give more) can slip past the catch under such an impact and stop the rifle up, hard. All Magpul AR PMAGs have this feature, in some form, that works in the platforms the magazine was designed to fire in. (E-MAG lacks this feature unless in an SA-80 or HK416) This stop also prevents overriding the mag catch under aggressive magazine monopod operation, which can alter feed geometry enough to induce a stoppage in extreme cases. (Interestingly enough...if you have a polymer mag that is supposed to have super tough feed lips...fire it from magazine monopod and put some lateral pressure on it...fore, aft, side, whatever. Ruh roh. Not stiff enough. But, I digress.)

There are indeed a white buffalo number of "in-spec" USGI pattern receivers that are tight with the dimensions of the stop location, generally when coupled with mag catches that are at the ends of the spectrum, and either ride up prior to snapping in because they are small, or require a more complete insertion because the catch itself is large, either of which, when coupled with a long rear mag well dimension at the ends of "acceptable", can interfere. Yes, you can find a few online, but this percentage is so small as to be infinitesimal compared to the numbers out there. Changing the catch usually works, and if not, a file stroke or two to the tab will solve the problem on the primary mags, and an unaltered mag usually inserts with a tiny bit of fore/aft rocking if an unaltered mag is picked up. Alternatively a couple thou off the offending receiver edge fixes it once and for all, though most will not want to break through the ano on a lower to do this.

The whole goal with the M3 was to increase durability even over the combat-proven M2, but also to be the most reliable magazine, period. We have proven this over hundreds of thousands of rounds, (hopefully some of the third party data will be released to the light of day at some point) in fixture tests, etc., and where the M3 really shines compared to other options is after being beaten around a bit, dirty, field conditions, etc., whether facing softer polymer mags, metal, etc., whatever. The over-insertion stop is part of this line of reasoning around field condition performance.

 

[Koda]

From Magpul:

It's indeed called an over-insertion stop, but the reality is that it serves that function in ways that aren't as obvious as the name implies. Yes, it prevents over-insertion on an open bolt reload, but the M2 had such a mechanism, also...just on the front of the mag. Due to HK adopting the SA-80 magwell front dimension, the front stop had to be lowered, like on the E-Mag. The rear stop serves that function on the M3, but the reality is...you really have to be a gorilla to over-insert even an E-Mag into an AR, which has no stop at all, let alone an M2. The actual reload insertion part was something that did indeed happen once in a blue moon, but preventing this was very secondary to the primary functions of the stop.

The primary function of the stop is in impacts to the bottom of the magazine in loaded weapon drops, or practical applications of this, such as going prone in a less than controlled manner, magazine monopod bearing down on the rifle, impacts during handling, etc. Lots of folks want to emphasize feed lip drops, and they are very important, but the reality is that impacts to the bottom of the magazine when in the rifle are probably more likely and more violent due to the weight of the rifle. USGI mags and other metal mags can buckle the mag catch area under such impacts, catching the follower or round stack and rendering the magazine completely non-functional, and polymer designs without some form of an effective stop (polymer of any kind will give more) can slip past the catch under such an impact and stop the rifle up, hard. All Magpul AR PMAGs have this feature, in some form, that works in the platforms the magazine was designed to fire in. (E-MAG lacks this feature unless in an SA-80 or HK416) This stop also prevents overriding the mag catch under aggressive magazine monopod operation, which can alter feed geometry enough to induce a stoppage in extreme cases. (Interestingly enough...if you have a polymer mag that is supposed to have super tough feed lips...fire it from magazine monopod and put some lateral pressure on it...fore, aft, side, whatever. Ruh roh. Not stiff enough. But, I digress.)

There are indeed a white buffalo number of "in-spec" USGI pattern receivers that are tight with the dimensions of the stop location, generally when coupled with mag catches that are at the ends of the spectrum, and either ride up prior to snapping in because they are small, or require a more complete insertion because the catch itself is large, either of which, when coupled with a long rear mag well dimension at the ends of "acceptable", can interfere. Yes, you can find a few online, but this percentage is so small as to be infinitesimal compared to the numbers out there. Changing the catch usually works, and if not, a file stroke or two to the tab will solve the problem on the primary mags, and an unaltered mag usually inserts with a tiny bit of fore/aft rocking if an unaltered mag is picked up. Alternatively a couple thou off the offending receiver edge fixes it once and for all, though most will not want to break through the ano on a lower to do this.

The whole goal with the M3 was to increase durability even over the combat-proven M2, but also to be the most reliable magazine, period. We have proven this over hundreds of thousands of rounds, (hopefully some of the third party data will be released to the light of day at some point) in fixture tests, etc., and where the M3 really shines compared to other options is after being beaten around a bit, dirty, field conditions, etc., whether facing softer polymer mags, metal, etc., whatever. The over-insertion stop is part of this line of reasoning around field condition performance.

So if I read that right, Magpul is saying its okay to give the overstop tab a file stoke or two...?

 

[titsonritz]

Correct

 

[Koda]

Thanks for posting that titsonritz, solution found and I can keep thos mags in my inventory and put them back on my list of mags worth buying