Pistol Suppressor Weights & Action Cycling

[Member 5605]

I have a 10oz suppressor for the Block 19, I have a booster from SD Tactical on it, adapter etc.
Total weight is right around 13.5oz.

I'm having issues running it reliably on my pistol. Sometimes I'll get two shots in, other times it won't even unlock the action.

Pistol:

Stock G19 Gen5 aside from suppressor sights & a threaded barrel.​

I'll have complete FTE or complete failure to cycles.

The ammo: (all hand loads)

115 gr RN, 5.2gr CFE​

147 gr RN, 3.8gr CFE​

The ammo above cycles perfectly in @Baseacegoku's store bought suppressor.

Over the last two weeks I've been doing a lot of digging but I can't find a solution aside from needing a lighter weight booster spring. I've greased the ever loving hell out of the inside of the booster where the piston slides, that now is smooth as KY. I wish I could get a spring rate on the spring I received from SD Tactical but nothing as of yet.


Any insight? Am I overlooking anything?
Ideas where to find different weight springs? I've looked but web seems broken on this resource.

Edit:
Going to look up on McMaster-Carr for a spring that is identical but softer and see what they'll charge for one (or get a mix of rates).

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[v0lcom13sn0w]

interesting. while i cant really answer your question, my silencerco hybrid is considered heavy for running on pistols. i wanna say 15oz give or take with the booster. i actually increased my slide spring weight on my g23 to minimize port pop. even with subs it cycles my p80 g17 on a stock spring.

 

[Member 5605]

interesting. while i cant really answer your question, my silencerco hybrid is considered heavy for running on pistols. i wanna say 15oz give or take with the booster. i actually increased my slide spring weight on my g23 to minimize port pop. even with subs it cycles my p80 g17 on a stock spring.

Good feedback.
I'll get an exact weight on mine when I get home but I know the can is 10.3oz and their booster is advertised as like 3.5oz or something like that.
Well under what some other cans are in the market.

it has to be a spring rate issue. Pistol runs like a fornicated ape without the suppressor, flawless.

 

[Deerhurst]

I too have a hybrid. I believe the spec on it is 17oz. I'd have to weight it to be sure. I run it on a HiPower and several Glocks and not a Glocks. No problems unless the booster is dirty and binding.

I run 115s, 124s, 147s and 165s through it in 9mm.

I'd try a lighter spring in your case.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Good feedback.
I'll get an exact weight on mine when I get home but I know the can is 10.3oz and their booster is advertised as like 3.5oz or something like that.
Well under what some other cans are in the market.

it has to be a spring rate issue. Pistol runs like a fornicated ape without the suppressor, flawless.

i agree

 

[Member 34319]

If I run my pistol cans on fixed hosts and don't thoroughly clean them before putting them into a pistol with a booster, they simply do not work. All my pistol cans have internal booster assemblies though. I've considered getting an external booster assembly to try out with them to see if that helps.

Seeing as the SD Tactical is an external booster, I'd be curious if it has similar threads to a store bought suppressor? Perhaps try that booster on another can? See if it is the sole cause of the problem?

With it greased up, it should be getting a good seal and creating pressure...

Are there O rings inside? Hard to tell from the picture.

 

[Member 5605]

If I run my pistol cans on fixed hosts and don't thoroughly clean them before putting them into a pistol with a booster, they simply do not work. All my pistol cans have internal booster assemblies though. I've considered getting an external booster assembly to try out with them to see if that helps.

Seeing as the SD Tactical is an external booster, I'd be curious if it has similar threads to a store bought suppressor? Perhaps try that booster on another can? See if it is the sole cause of the problem?

With it greased up, it should be getting a good seal and creating pressure...

Are there O rings inside? Hard to tell from the picture.

The booster runs different threads because it's smaller sized than the 5.5" suppressor it is on. 1-3/16 x 24? Tube is 1-3/8 x 24 if memory serves me right.
There is an adapter connecting the two.
O ring is greased. Very smooth cycling when pulling the piston in and out with aid of the pistol. Really hard but smooth without hiccups or hangs.

May have to find another pistol can around here and check its tension compared to mine. It's not like I can trim a spring or shim because then it is just tighter or a sloppy fit.

 

[MfnLeadFarmer]

@Tornado-Technologies

 

[jbett98]

I specifically sought out a vintage HK P9s pistol, just so I could hang my suppressor directly onto the barrel with no Nielson booster assembly.

I had Tornado Technologies do the barrel extension. It works perfectly and is super accurate.

 

[Member 34319]

The booster runs different threads because it's smaller sized than the 5.5" suppressor it is on. 1-3/16 x 24? Tube is 1-3/8 x 24 if memory serves me right.
There is an adapter connecting the two.
O ring is greased. Very smooth cycling when pulling the piston in and out with aid of the pistol. Really hard but smooth without hiccups or hangs.

May have to find another pistol can around here and check its tension compared to mine. It's not like I can trim a spring or shim because then it is just tighter or a sloppy fit.

I think you are likely right in thinking it is the spring. Perhaps more use will cycle/wear the spring in?

Only two things going on in a booster assembly, pressure needs build up and the spring to return it. If the spring is too tight to allow decoupling, no cycle. If the seal is bad, no pressure, no decoupling no cycle.

Dirty booster assemblies also don't allow for decoupling, at least my dirty ones don't! I still need to dip my front end or get to scraping carbon out before it will work again on a pistol!

Hope you get it figured out!

 

[spider]

I haven't looked to see if they make it for a G19, but try a gen 1-3 guide rod with an adapter to fit the plug on the gen 5 slides, so you can try out different weights of guide rod springs, since that stock gen 4-5 dual captive guide rod, probably isn't working out.

 

[Greenbug]

Striker fired guns can be kinda quirky when suppressed...

 

[Deerhurst]

Striker fired guns can be kinda quirky when suppressed...

The mechanism of hitting the primer has nothing to do with anything hanging off the barrel. The striker does it's job long before any muzzle device comes into play.

Pistols with browning actions, such as the 1911, BHP, Glock, basically every pistol out there except a few special ones, PX Storm, CZ52, and various blowback models struggle when you add too much weight on the end of the barrel. Even muzzle brakes can cause problems. The neilson device was invented to alleviate these problems with suppressors by allowing the suppressor to "float" on the end of the barrel and allow the browning action to function.

No, it's not a striker fired problem. It's inharent to every browning action pistol in the world. Sometimes you get lucky and other times you need a neilson device.

 

[Greenbug]

The mechanism of hitting the primer has nothing to do with anything hanging off the barrel. The striker does it's job long before any muzzle device comes into play.

Pistols with browning actions, such as the 1911, BHP, Glock, basically every pistol out there except a few special ones, PX Storm, CZ52, and various blowback models struggle when you add too much weight on the end of the barrel. Even muzzle brakes can cause problems. The neilson device was invented to alleviate these problems with suppressors by allowing the suppressor to "float" on the end of the barrel and allow the browning action to function.

No, it's not a striker fired problem. It's inharent to every browning action pistol in the world. Sometimes you get lucky and other times you need a neilson device.

I think I should have been clearer on my statement. Striker fired pistols (of the browning action type) can be quirky when suppressed because they have no external hammer to help keep the system pressurized for the extra millisecond or two.

The external hammer keeps the action closed for that extra little bit generally resulting in better suppressed functionality/reliability.

I am just a dude on the internet, the advice is free, and worth every penny!

 

[Deerhurst]

I think I should have been clearer on my statement. Striker fired pistols (of the browning action type) can be quirky when suppressed because they have no external hammer to help keep the system pressurized for the extra millisecond or two.

The external hammer keeps the action closed for that extra little bit generally resulting in better suppressed functionality/reliability.

I am just a dude on the internet, the advice is free, and worth every penny!

I'd have to do some research but logically the hammer does little to nothing. You must reduce the slide spring weight to compensate for the hammer weight to get it to cycle correctly. The browning action design, like any other locking design, mechanically holds the action closed until the pressures have dropped to a safe level.A lighter spring in the gun and less resistance would function better without a booster. When I comp my pistols I generally end up with a lighter slide spring because the extra "weight" from the gasses keep the action closed too long as the pressures and below sufficient to cycle the action. We have a similar issues with a suppressor where it's weight keeps the action closed too long.

 

[Greenbug]

I'd have to do some research but logically the hammer does little to nothing.

Grab any hammer fired semi-auto pistol. Cock the hammer then cycle the slide, then cycle the slide with the hammer down. Which condition creates more resistance to the slide movement?

 

[Deerhurst]

Grab any hammer fired semi-auto pistol. Cock the hammer then cycle the slide, then cycle the slide with the hammer down. Which condition creates more resistance to the slide movement?

Thats in no way scientific or capable of determining anything.

By that logic a striker gun will always function better with a can, brake, light loads, etc because it doesnt have a hammer. That is incorrect. What you say is that my CZ52 will run better with a can because it is hammer fired vs my glock 34 because it is striker fired. The actions are complete different! The CZ52 will probably choke because the barrel needs to move forward to unlock the action. I have not tried this as I dont know what thread is on my barrel yet. My G34 runs way better than my BHP with a can even though my BHP is all trick and fancy with C&S hammer springs, progressive slide springs, etc. It hiccups on light loads where the 34 with stock everything, on a p80 frame, just runs everything. My 17L on a p80, on the other hand, struggles without a can and needs more tuning.

With the right springs, load and booster setup both, hammer or striker fired, will run fine. If both are browning actions ignore the hammer or striker and focus on the neilson device and the slide spring. Those actually matter.


Some cool slowmo on a glock on how it works and what it does:

 

[Wombat of Doom]

The mechanism of hitting the primer has nothing to do with anything hanging off the barrel. The striker does it's job long before any muzzle device comes into play.

Pistols with browning actions, such as the 1911, BHP, Glock, basically every pistol out there except a few special ones, PX Storm, CZ52, and various blowback models struggle when you add too much weight on the end of the barrel. Even muzzle brakes can cause problems. The neilson device was invented to alleviate these problems with suppressors by allowing the suppressor to "float" on the end of the barrel and allow the browning action to function.

No, it's not a striker fired problem. It's inharent to every browning action pistol in the world. Sometimes you get lucky and other times you need a neilson device.

MY cz52 works without a booster with my osprey 45 and omega 9k. I have had more trouble with the glock like guns cycling myself.

 

[Deerhurst]

MY cz52 works without a booster with my osprey 45 and omega 9k. I have had more trouble with the glock like guns cycling myself.

I havnt gotten a chance to figure out the threads on mine. I have 2, one very clean '54 and a slightly bubba '54 with a ghost ring in the rear. That ghost ring is terrible. The bubba one came with a SS threaded barrel. I'd like to put my can on one of them soon.

The browning action is often touchy with weight off the end.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Mine is 1/2x28 and is one of my spare barrels. (I also have the 9mm conversion barrel.) My threaded barrel does not shoot in line with the sights very well.