OSP delay

[BanjoGeek]

I hope this is the right category. Thought I would share my experience with a couple of trades with a couple of NWFA members. Two trades, two different transactions. The two gentlemen I traded with were approved and out the door in about 30 minutes. I was approved for one transaction in about 30 minutes. This took place Saturday and I am still awaiting approval on the other transaction. No help when I try to get an explanation from OSP for the transaction being basically done at the same time. Anyone have anything this bizzare happen to them? I have heard of it happening when the purchases were a few days apart but not minutes apart. Rant over.

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[Flopsweat]

I hope this is the right category. Thought I would share my experience with a couple of trades with a couple of NWFA members. Two trades, two different transactions. The two gentlemen I traded with were approved and out the door in about 30 minutes. I was approved for one transaction in about 30 minutes. This took place Saturday and I am still awaiting approval on the other transaction. No help when I try to get an explanation from OSP for the transaction being basically done at the same time. Anyone have anything this bizzare happen to them? I have heard of it happening when the purchases were a few days apart but not minutes apart. Rant over.

If they were run separately they may have been run by a different person at OSP. Your record probably doesn't change day to day and the rules probably don't either. The human factor seems the likeliest candidate.

 

[03A3Sporter]

I do not know how true this is but there are allegedly only 3 people who run backgrounds through NICS . Personally I think it is asinine that Oregon thought they can run a NICS check through NICS better than dealers can themselves. When transfers are happening in less than 30 minutes elsewhere and its taking weeks depending on the queue for Oregon.

 

[Flopsweat]

I do not know how true this is but there are allegedly only 3 people who run backgrounds through NICS . Personally I think it is asinine that Oregon thought they can run a NICS check through NICS better than dealers can themselves. When transfers are happening in less than 30 minutes elsewhere and its taking weeks depending on the queue for Oregon.

I think I've spotted the issue. Are you sure that the lawmakers in question wanted to make the system better?

 

[03A3Sporter]

I think I've spotted the issue. Are you sure that the lawmakers in question wanted to make the system better?

That is kinda my point. I personally think there room for a class action law suit by gun owners because the system clearly seems to be intended to delay and prevent you owning a gun.

 

[Stomper]

I do not know how true this is but there are allegedly only 3 people who run backgrounds through NICS . Personally I think it is asinine that Oregon thought they can run a NICS check through NICS better than dealers can themselves. When transfers are happening in less than 30 minutes elsewhere and its taking weeks depending on the queue for Oregon.

That's because the state of Oregon is building a registry database.... they can deny it, pass ORS, and OAR it to death, but they're building that database, bet your life on it.

 

[BanjoGeek]

That is kinda my point. I personally think there room for a class action law suit by gun owners because the system clearly seems to be intended to delay and prevent you owning a gun.

I agree, Oregon's method of gun control.

 

[The Heretic]

I do not know how true this is but there are allegedly only 3 people who run backgrounds through NICS . Personally I think it is asinine that Oregon thought they can run a NICS check through NICS better than dealers can themselves. When transfers are happening in less than 30 minutes elsewhere and its taking weeks depending on the queue for Oregon.

Bad assumptions - IMO

The goal isn't to be better. The goals are:

1) To collect serial numbers, make, model and type data so that when they pass confiscation/bans, they have data on who has what.

2) To slow things down when the situation gets hairy.

When it comes to politics and government control, assume the opposite of Hanlon's razor - i.e., assume malice instead of stupidity/incompetence.

 

[03A3Sporter]

That's because the state of Oregon is building a registry database.... they can deny it, pass ORS, and OAR it to death, but they're building that database, bet your life on it.

Do you believe NICS is any different ? seriously ... The one thing I know to be a certainty is that once information goes into a database. It will be around and available forever , I do not care what the law says about having to discard the information after a retention period.

 

[Stomper]

Do you believe NICS is any different ? seriously ... The one thing I know to be a certainty is that once information goes into a database. It will be around and available forever , I do not care what the law says about having to discard the information after a retention period.

absolutely no argument for me.

 

[The Heretic]

Do you believe NICS is any different ? seriously ... The one thing I know to be a certainty is that once information goes into a database. It will be around and available forever , I do not care what the law says about having to discard the information after a retention period.

Absolutely, it is very hard to completely remove copies of data from any large data system, especially antiquated systems implemented by incompetent devs working in a large antiquated organization, which the Oregon state gov is.

The code would have to be very diligently designed to prevent data propagation. I very much doubt they tried, much less were capable of doing preventing it. That data goes into a data store somewhere, for at least some period of time, and from there it will probably be backed up and copied elsewhere - either purposely or not.

 

[Flopsweat]

Absolutely, it is very hard to completely remove copies of data from any large data system, especially antiquated systems implemented by incompetent devs working in a large antiquated organization, which the Oregon state gov is.

The code would have to be very diligently designed to prevent data propagation. I very much doubt they tried, much less were capable of doing preventing it. That data goes into a data store somewhere, for at least some period of time, and from there it will probably be backed up and copied elsewhere - either purposely or not.

The last part especially. Backups and copies are made, then not properly managed. Data winds up in the cyber equivalent of a ditch on the side of the road.

 

[The Heretic]

The last part especially. Backups and copies are made, then not properly managed. Data winds up in the cyber equivalent of a ditch on the side of the road.

Exactly. Any person who has been involved with the nitty gritty of data systems understands the truth of this. Also, the security of this data is often very lax, especially among those who have to deal with it at the development and maintenance levels.

I once had access to account and personal data for tens of thousands of people - when I worked for a legal firm that processed bill collection attempts against people who owed $ and didn't pay it. Most of the data was out of date and the accounts closed, but it would have been more than sufficient to open new accounts (easily done, even for deadbeats - especially for credit cards) and to otherwise conduct identity theft. That same firm had their offices broken into and a laptop with this data stolen - did they report it? No.

Imagine what criminals could do with the data the state has on who owns what guns and what their home address is.

 

[Stomper]

I'd be more worried about what the Chicoms ARE doing with all that personal data....

 

[03A3Sporter]

Exactly. Any person who has been involved with the nitty gritty of data systems understands the truth of this. Also, the security of this data is often very lax, especially among those who have to deal with it at the development and maintenance levels.

I once had access to account and personal data for tens of thousands of people - when I worked for a legal firm that processed bill collection attempts against people who owed $ and didn't pay it. Most of the data was out of date and the accounts closed, but it would have been more than sufficient to open new accounts (easily done, even for deadbeats - especially for credit cards) and to otherwise conduct identity theft. That same firm had their offices broken into and a laptop with this data stolen - did they report it? No.

Imagine what criminals could do with the data the state has on who owns what guns and what their home address is.

I deal with big data sets frequently and write reports from tables , data is never deleted . It may be appended and updated but its never deleted .

 

[03A3Sporter]

I'd be more worried about what the Chicoms ARE doing with all that personal data....

This is actually one of the reasons I refuse to let medical providers take my photo, they already have enough information to loose as it is. Giving them more information and one more piece of the puzzle doesn't benefit me. Everytime they start telling me about how they safeguard information I laugh and say I work in information technology ... That usually ends the discussion

 

[The Heretic]

I deal with big data sets frequently and write reports from tables , data is never deleted . It may be appended and updated but its never deleted .

Yes, then there is all the analysis/ETL/etc. that goes on - often with someone making a copy of the data so they can work with it, and they copy the copy to someone else, putting a copy of it up on some file share (especially if it is larger than 10MB). Then a LOT of that data gets backed up automatically by IT systems. And people put it on thumb drives and so on.

It just ripples out and out and out.

 

[The Heretic]

I'd be more worried about what the Chicoms ARE doing with all that personal data....

Less worried about other govs than my own gov. If anything, the Chicoms should be alarmed by the data they collect on our gun and ammo ownership.

 

[Flopsweat]

Exactly. Any person who has been involved with the nitty gritty of data systems understands the truth of this. Also, the security of this data is often very lax, especially among those who have to deal with it at the development and maintenance levels.

I once had access to account and personal data for tens of thousands of people - when I worked for a legal firm that processed bill collection attempts against people who owed $ and didn't pay it. Most of the data was out of date and the accounts closed, but it would have been more than sufficient to open new accounts (easily done, even for deadbeats - especially for credit cards) and to otherwise conduct identity theft. That same firm had their offices broken into and a laptop with this data stolen - did they report it? No.

Imagine what criminals could do with the data the state has on who owns what guns and what their home address is.

I've had access to systems with huge numbers of users. I work in "the cloud". Fortunately most of the clients have been very careful about data, but it's scary how easily some places can leak data.

I'd be more worried about what the Chicoms ARE doing with all that personal data....

You have no idea.

Yes, then there is all the analysis/ETL/etc. that goes on - often with someone making a copy of the data so they can work with it, and they copy the copy to someone else, putting a copy of it up on some file share (especially if it is larger than 10MB). Then a LOT of that data gets backed up automatically by IT systems. And people put it on thumb drives and so on.

It just ripples out and out and out.

And don't get me started on source code. I've had some very secure dev laptops and some not so much. Companies are getting better at the most basic security measures but the problem is that it's a long chain and only needs one weak link to fail.

 

[The Heretic]

And don't get me started on source code. I've had some very secure dev laptops and some not so much.

I've worked on a number of projects where the joke was that the worst thing we could wish on our competitors was that they would get ahold of our source code. That includes my last job at Daimler (I feel sorry for the poor devs who still have to try to make sense of the legacy code).