Officer Involved Shooting dash cam released...

[Sasquatchvnv]

i should not read these off-topic threads. the comments some of you guys leave are nothing short of STUPID.

you don't see the officer's perspective. YOU have the benefit of being able to see exactly what the subject's right hand is doing. all the COP sees is a biker, in the middle of the night, fail to comply to an order to put his hands up, and furthermore turn his head/body/hand toward, from the officer's perspective, his right hip.

the shoot is highly questionable- that's why he's in trouble. but it's highly questionable at it's worst, based on this video. NOT OUTRIGHT DAMNING. i'm sure the next 8 pages will be more useless, half-brained random comments fully condemning this officer and calling for his balls on the block, because you all seem to be such experts on LE use of force.. but one video of one vantage is not enough to make that judgement. you just look stupid by trying to act so smart.

it'll be up to him to articulate why he was in fear for his life or the lives of bystanders. if he can do that, it doesn't bubblegumin matter what you think.

It was just a dirty biker - its not like he shot a human or anything - sometimes I wonder if the cops have a bag limit or something. I've avoided being shot so far in life by keeping my hands on the handlebars, listening very carefully, and moving very slowly.

 

[68Mustang]

If one of us would have been in a similar situation, would you have taken the shot (similar not in a traffic stop but just in an altercation on the street)? I wouldn't have. But if I HAD, I'd have been arrested, tried, convicted, and serving life before you could say, "excessive force".

I guess I'm just old fashioned but a BG should have a weapon in hand or in process of attempting to take mine before firing my weapon.

 

[claypigeon]

If one of us would have been in a similar situation, would you have taken the shot (similar not in a traffic stop but just in an altercation on the street)? I wouldn't have. But if I HAD, I'd have been arrested, tried, convicted, and serving life before you could say, "excessive force".

I guess I'm just old fashioned but a BG should have a weapon in hand or in process of attempting to take mine before firing my weapon.

This is a good point. I realize the officers are under high stress in this job, but they need to be able to make good decisions under stress.

 

[Bazooka Joe]

6- Disobeying a police officer is not grounds to get shot, particularly when the time between the command and the shooting was about a second. The guy couldn't see the cop had a gun out (I would suspect based on his placement) which makes me think that he just wasn't given enough time to obey the response. The guy was just on a loud motorcycle for gods sake, I wouldn't be surprised if his ability to hear a slurred yell was compromised.

This. With the loud motorcycles and possible sirens, I doubt the guy even heard the police officer. He appeared to be simply looking back to see where the officer was. I didn't see him "pull his arm back" like the attorney was describing.

 

[supergenius]

Doesnt matter, F that cop. WE have to wait until a weapon is brandished... SO should they, Ive been pulled over for speeding (REALLLY SPEEDING, and guilty... Admitting it from the get go and being NOTHING but cooperative and respectfull) and the pig tried yanking me out of the car like i killed someone, untill my big 280 solid pound *** got out of the car, and calmly told him i wasnt going to resist run or fight... He still procededed to be an bubblegum and tried to ram me into one set of cuffs, but my shoulders are too wide, my arms to big.. and there was no way... He was trying to say that i was resisting because my arms couldnt go back anymore... Little 160 LB dude was SHAKING.... He wasnt even after me, he couldnt catch the 2 guys he was after, and I wasnt going THAT FAST... He got on my ***, i turned on my blinker, changed lanes and he got right on my *** again (It was an unmarked impala and I had 0 idea it was a stater)... At that point I thought I was being pursued by a road rager. I BRAKECHECKED HIM HARD.... THEN the lights came on... I have no idea how he didnt hit me... He tried to accuse me of alllll kinds of crap.

I could see my situation having had ended up like this one too... I always find it funny when some wet behind the ear 22 year old kid (cop) thinks its his place to lecture me on what im doing wrong... bubblegum, Ive seen more in any 4 years than 90 percent of them have in their lives.

Regardless... Pigs like this need to go to prison.

If i or anyoner else (non LEO) acted like this... We would. Im getting sickl of seeing it over and over again... Power hungry cops overstepping their bounds...

Black, white, mexican, asian... Everyonse is getting tired of it. The extent of my law breaking is driving too fast.


Put in this guys shoes id be lying right next to him for having my hand in my pocket??? Give me a break... The cops excuse if he would have pulled his hand out would have been the same " I thought" welll... DONT THINK, you best KNOW.

 

[Katonic]

"3- The biker's movements were not quick enough to warrant a shoot."

Really how fast or slow the guy was moving is not the issue if you are going for a gun and trying to hide your actions you would go slow. Also Police are trained to look for clues in body language for warning having been through that training myself I would have shoot this guy to. You can clearly hear the officer tell the biker 3 times to put his hands up without any sign of compliance after the third time the officer shot him. I wasn't there to see the whole thing but from my training i would have shot this guy myself the camera gives a different angle then what the officer could see. This is just another very unfortunate accident. But with all of the police being killed in the NW in the last two years i can understand why the officer did what he did. I believe that to find the officer guilty of a crime would be a shame.Criminal I don't think so civilly liable maybe. And by the way bullets will travel pretty good through the sheet metal used in Automobiles. You tube shots through car doors and such. Guys don't be so quick to armchair this event lets find out what the court system finds in the case.

 

[parallax]

This. With the loud motorcycles and possible sirens, I doubt the guy even heard the police officer. He appeared to be simply looking back to see where the officer was. I didn't see him "pull his arm back" like the attorney was describing.

I'm with you Joe. I have been riding all my life,, I was pulled over once, cause i didnt see a cop behind me, while i was gettin it on a little too fast,going onto a hiway right turn from a side road., the cop hit his lights and siren,, when i pulled over,, the cop was on his P.A. system telling me to take the keys out of the bike.I had already turned it off..I couldnt understand a word he was saying,, it sounded like a muffled mcdonalds drive thru speaker,, then he got out of his car and started yelling at me about why arent you complying, didnt you hear my instructions,, etc..etc.. I informed him his P.A. couldnt be understood, and needed to be checked out,, he was all hot about it,, but just gave me a warning not a ticket. the dude in this video pulled over when he was lit up by the police lights,, if he was really a criminal why would he even stop?,, also the biker may have had a hearing defect?. i know my hearing is not very good anymore, i wonder if cops take that into consideration when they are yelling instructions.?

 

[clearconscience]

i should not read these off-topic threads. the comments some of you guys leave are nothing short of STUPID.

you don't see the officer's perspective. YOU have the benefit of being able to see exactly what the subject's right hand is doing. all the COP sees is a biker, in the middle of the night, fail to comply to an order to put his hands up, and furthermore turn his head/body/hand toward, from the officer's perspective, his right hip.

the shoot is highly questionable- that's why he's in trouble. but it's highly questionable at it's worst, based on this video. NOT OUTRIGHT DAMNING. i'm sure the next 8 pages will be more useless, half-brained random comments fully condemning this officer and calling for his balls on the block, because you all seem to be such experts on LE use of force.. but one video of one vantage is not enough to make that judgement. you just look stupid by trying to act so smart.

it'll be up to him to articulate why he was in fear for his life or the lives of bystanders. if he can do that, it doesn't bubblegumin matter what you think.

I agree.
We've seen the videos and tests showing how little time it takes for someone to pull a gun and shoot an officer. And how that time is far less than it takes for an officer to react and pull his gun.
This is going to happen more and more and it's something that's either going to be damning to officers careers and lives or be a wake up call to bad guys and citizens in general to listen to cops and not be stupid. Of course we do have cops tha are quick on the trigger. But if your going to be a armchair cowboy then get off your A and see if you can do better. See if you come home to your family.

 

[Keane]

I agree.
We've seen the videos and tests showing how little time it takes for someone to pull a gun and shoot an officer. And how that time is far less than it takes for an officer to react and pull his gun.
This is going to happen more and more and it's something that's either going to be damning to officers careers and lives or be a wake up call to bad guys and citizens in general to listen to cops and not be stupid. Of course we do have cops tha are quick on the trigger. But if your going to be a armchair cowboy then get off your A and see if you can do better. See if you come home to your family.

The cop already had his gun drawn and pointed. Ergo, your timing issue is invalid.

 

[clearconscience]

The guy was with someone who ran. Ergo it turned into a felony stop... You draw your gun.

 

[Keane]

The guy was with someone who ran. Ergo it turned into a felony stop... You draw your gun.

Ran? Which video were you seeing? I saw an aggressive acceleration that came to a stop the INSTANT the lights came on. Until then, it wasn't running, it wasn't felony stop.

Even so, he had the gun drawn, so your point about 'having to shoot' is foolish. He definitely wasn't going to get outdrawn, since the cop already had his gun out! With the angle the cop was standing, it would have been impossible for the biker to shoot the cop by turning in that direction.

 

[Member 5605]

this is hilarious the way things have gone in this thread.

There's 13 seconds from point of lights to stop. Most of that being when the officer catches up. Then from the point of the vehicle stopping to the shot is another 8 seconds.

that's 8 seconds from the patrol vehicle stopping. Then deduct 3 seconds maybe for putting car in park, taking off seat belt (because he's a law abiding officer he was wearing one) that leaves 5 seconds max from being outside of the vehicle to him shooting.

Time time allotted cannot allow for the correct actions. F- that, shoot first, ask then ask questions later?


My $.02

 

[cyclesarge]

I must be watching a different video to. I can't hear anything from the cop (or ay least nothing I can make out), all I can hear in the video is the siren and the other bike. I assume the audio came from the cops car, not the victims bike. It's pretty obvious to me the rider couldn't hear or understand the instructions. I like how the cop's lawyer is re-enacting the "turn and put his hand on his leg", it looks like he is pulling his jacket back and reaching for his gun. Whereas, it looks to me like the biker is putting his hand on his leg to gain leverage to twist and see what the cop is doing. A maneuver I've done hundreds of times to see what is going on behind me while sitting on a stopped bike. The lawyer states instead of putting his hand up he puts it low when he could have just as easily put his hand up. I take it this lawyer has never tried to balance the weight of a Harley, specially without the use of his hands.

I understand and appreciate the peril officers face very day. I also wouldn't want to be shot for a traffic infraction either. I think the cop "f"ed up and should face the consequences just like anyone else that "f"ed up.

 

[supergenius]

I hope that guys ok, he gets PAID and that cop at the very least loses his job. Hes better suited for some security work in a mall, and even that debatable... Actions like that by law enforcement makes even law abiding citizens have concern for THEIR well being should they find themselves in ANY kind of situation that MIGHT have uposet the officer... Theyre here to protect and to serve, not shoot first, and acertain situations in retrospect, cry crocodile tears, appologixe for ruining at least 1 persons life and getting off the hook..


Not coola t all and proof that our LE agencies need to be looked at... Maybe some PSYCH assements...

maybe.

 

[wichaka]

The cop already had his gun drawn and pointed. Ergo, your timing issue is invalid.

Don't kid yourself...

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26982&highlight=proned

http://www.forcescience.org/180degreeturn.html

http://www.forcescience.org/90degreeturn.html

 

[Throckmorton]

Looks to me like the cop was WAY WAY too quick to shoot,and for no good or valid reason.
He had come to a full stop,and was not making aggressive moves,just turning to see what was going on,and maybe trying to figure out why the **** he was being screamed at.
Training be damned, i don't think most people could come to a screeching stop after a persuit,jump out of their car screaming ,and not have adrenalin cloud their thinking and judgement. I think in this case adrenelin (sp) got the better of him and he over reacted to a small movement for the rider,
IMHO,YMMV,etc etc

 

[terrylf72]

I too have watched the video a few times and cound not clearly hear what the officer was telling him to do. even in a quiet room. Only heard him say what he said once. He should have yelled out more then once. The sad issue that 2 lives were destroyed that night. If found guilty well, thats been explained. But if found innocent he will have to face the fact that he shot an innocent man and will face the trials and tribulation of what he will face in the future.

If Innocent:

If faced with the same scenario, would he draw his weapon again or freeze? The years of thearopy he might face, to even be competent at his job again.

As I have friends and acquaintances who are officers. Have heard stories of what they have seen and gone through. I feel for the officer. I will show this to my friends and get thier opinions!

onsBut all said and done.
I feel that he should be found guilty.

 

[cyclesarge]

Don't kid yourself...

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26982&highlight=proned

http://www.forcescience.org/180degreeturn.html

http://www.forcescience.org/90degreeturn.html

Let's see them try that while sitting on and balancing a Harley, assuming they could still be holding the gun (in their throttle/brake hand) shortly after stopping from speeding.

 

[clearconscience]

It wouldn't be that hard for the biker to lift his left leg over the bike while drawing a weapon and do a turn, run, while shooting. Accurate? No. But then again neither is a cop firing in a high stress situation.

Was the cop quick on shooting. Yes. But you have no idea what was going on before that, what crimes have been made, have they had problems with biker gangs, shootings, etc. It's easy to watch a video and give your opinion. Mine too. It sure as **** doesn't mean either one of us is correct.

Ergo.......Nobody here can make a factual statment on this video other than an uneducated guess of what they think happened....

Either way you look at it. The streets are getting more dangerous, more people are shooting cops and innocent civilians, there are more gangs, more drugs, and more stupid people that will kill that cop, me, and any of you because they don't give a crap about anything but themselves, getting high, not getting a ticket, your wearing the wrong color, or you look at them funny.

 

[wolfwistle]

Do you think you would get 11 years for shooting a unarmed police officer for no reason?