Officer Involved Shooting dash cam released...

[Keane]

<broken link removed>

Video was released at the trial of an Ottawa Hills officer's trial.

I've drawn a conclusion, but will wait for a bit before saying anything.

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[gunnoob75]

It was wrong for the cop to have had his gun drawn in the first place.

Throw the book at him.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I am willing to bet that this video is the reason the shooting made it to trial. I am betting the grand jury that saw it was convinced the officer was wrong and that is hard to do considering how they tend to stack grand juries. This officer is probably toast...and probably rightfully so.

 

[coloneltim]

I am willing to bet that this video is the reason the shooting made it to trial. I am betting the grand jury that saw it was convinced the officer was wrong and that is hard to do considering how they tend to stack grand juries. This officer is probably toast...and probably rightfully so.

Do ya think so?

 

[swoop]

No reason to shoot this guy..the city and the cop will pay big time for this one.

 

[Bovaloe]

I watched it a couple time and am still trying to figure out why he got shot. Absolutely no reason, cop should be thrown in jail for a long time

 

[The B]

i should not read these off-topic threads. the comments some of you guys leave are nothing short of STUPID.

you don't see the officer's perspective. YOU have the benefit of being able to see exactly what the subject's right hand is doing. all the COP sees is a biker, in the middle of the night, fail to comply to an order to put his hands up, and furthermore turn his head/body/hand toward, from the officer's perspective, his right hip.

the shoot is highly questionable- that's why he's in trouble. but it's highly questionable at it's worst, based on this video. NOT OUTRIGHT DAMNING. i'm sure the next 8 pages will be more useless, half-brained random comments fully condemning this officer and calling for his balls on the block, because you all seem to be such experts on LE use of force.. but one video of one vantage is not enough to make that judgement. you just look stupid by trying to act so smart.

it'll be up to him to articulate why he was in fear for his life or the lives of bystanders. if he can do that, it doesn't bubblegumin matter what you think.

 

[trainsktg]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I watched it a couple time and am still trying to figure out why he got shot.

Me too.

Keith

 

[Cougfan2]

i should not read these off-topic threads. the comments some of you guys leave are nothing short of STUPID.

you don't see the officer's perspective. YOU have the benefit of being able to see exactly what the subject's right hand is doing. all the COP sees is a biker, in the middle of the night, fail to comply to an order to put his hands up, and furthermore turn his head/body/hand toward, from the officer's perspective, his right hip.

the shoot is highly questionable- that's why he's in trouble. but it's highly questionable at it's worst, based on this video. NOT OUTRIGHT DAMNING. i'm sure the next 8 pages will be more useless, half-brained random comments fully condemning this officer and calling for his balls on the block, because you all seem to be such experts on LE use of force.. but one video of one vantage is not enough to make that judgement. you just look stupid by trying to act so smart.

it'll be up to him to articulate why he was in fear for his life or the lives of bystanders. if he can do that, it doesn't bubblegumin matter what you think.

Tell us how you really feel. Actually, I'm kind of on your side on this one. While what we can see from the video is pretty damning, I actually questioned the guy turning and putting his hand down by his waist and we have a different view than the cop had at the time. This is why we have grand juries; to get ALL of the evidence and testimony out. Frankly, I just don't have enough info from that limited video clip to draw any hard conclusions. Let the system work.

 

[NLLJS]

i agree with the above two posts. it looks bad on the video, but the video does a really poor job of showing exactly what his hand is doing but it looks to me like he is reaching for his pocket. i would have to see more and better video to form an opinion of this one.

but it does get old to see so many people post every little negative bit of info that they can find about the police. this video doesn't fall into that category though, i think it is a good example to show you how limited even a video can be in showing what actually happened.

 

[claypigeon]

The guy pulled over after the officer put his lights on. I guess the first thing I would do is go for my drivers license, which would be in my right back pocket. Why would the officer jump out with gun drawn and tell the guy to put his hands up? We need more info but it does sound like the officer was going pretty hard core for a traffic violation. Maybe it was more than a traffic stop?

 

[Keane]

So I guess it is good enough time for my thoughts:

1- I agree that the camera gives a different perspective from what the cop was seeing

2- I don't know the background, but perhaps coming out with gun-drawn was justified, I don't really have a problem with this.

3- The biker's movements were not quick enough to warrant a shoot.

4- The officer never saw anything that looked like a gun, and was at a distinct tactical and positional advantage. He shot WAAAY too early, and that is apparent in the video. He was behind cover against a guy with out an easy ability to turn and make a shot. Definitely makes this a bad-shoot.

5- 11 years punishment for shooting relatively unprovoked is a pretty good deal.

6- Disobeying a police officer is not grounds to get shot, particularly when the time between the command and the shooting was about a second. The guy couldn't see the cop had a gun out (I would suspect based on his placement) which makes me think that he just wasn't given enough time to obey the response. The guy was just on a loud motorcycle for gods sake, I wouldn't be surprised if his ability to hear a slurred yell was compromised.

In conclusion, I think without some really exculpatory evidence, this cop gets found guilty, and in my opinion, rightfully so.

 

[gunnoob75]

I dunno. Doesn't look like he even (lifted, pulled, jerked) his hand to me. Just turned his head back.

 

[wakeadrian]

I understand that the cop told the guy put your hands up and he didn't immediately do so. That was a bad idea, of course. What bothers me, is exactly what Joe said, why would he have gotten OUT of his car with his gun drawn in the first place? (From what the video stated, anyways)
Also, the cop said that (about his hand position) "Well, I believe it was on his leg." Which makes me ask: If you know that, then what would he have been going for on his leg?
It also appears that his arm only slightly moved from him turning around. Again, probably not the correct action, but nothing that I think should have had the officer fear the worst.

 

[wakeadrian]

So I guess it is good enough time for my thoughts:

1- I agree that the camera gives a different perspective from what the cop was seeing

2- I don't know the background, but perhaps coming out with gun-drawn was justified, I don't really have a problem with this.

3- The biker's movements were not quick enough to warrant a shoot.

4- The officer never saw anything that looked like a gun, and was at a distinct tactical and positional advantage. He shot WAAAY too early, and that is apparent in the video. He was behind cover against a guy with out an easy ability to turn and make a shot. Definitely makes this a bad-shoot.

5- 11 years punishment for shooting relatively unprovoked is a pretty good deal.

6- Disobeying a police officer is not grounds to get shot, particularly when the time between the command and the shooting was about a second. The guy couldn't see the cop had a gun out (I would suspect based on his placement) which makes me think that he just wasn't given enough time to obey the response. The guy was just on a loud motorcycle for gods sake, I wouldn't be surprised if his ability to hear a slurred yell was compromised.

In conclusion, I think without some really exculpatory evidence, this cop gets found guilty, and in my opinion, rightfully so.

I agree with most of this, except for number 2. I think his premature weapon draw shows his instability/unreliability of judgement in the situation. (Again, from what I can tell. Not just LEO bashing)

 

[Father of four]

So I guess it is good enough time for my thoughts:

1- I agree that the camera gives a different perspective from what the cop was seeing

2- I don't know the background, but perhaps coming out with gun-drawn was justified, I don't really have a problem with this.

3- The biker's movements were not quick enough to warrant a shoot.

4- The officer never saw anything that looked like a gun, and was at a distinct tactical and positional advantage. He shot WAAAY too early, and that is apparent in the video. He was behind cover against a guy with out an easy ability to turn and make a shot. Definitely makes this a bad-shoot.

5- 11 years punishment for shooting relatively unprovoked is a pretty good deal.

6- Disobeying a police officer is not grounds to get shot, particularly when the time between the command and the shooting was about a second. The guy couldn't see the cop had a gun out (I would suspect based on his placement) which makes me think that he just wasn't given enough time to obey the response. The guy was just on a loud motorcycle for gods sake, I wouldn't be surprised if his ability to hear a slurred yell was compromised.

In conclusion, I think without some really exculpatory evidence, this cop gets found guilty, and in my opinion, rightfully so.

I agree with you no mater what bkb0000 said.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

No excuse to shoot the guy. IMO if convicted the cop should get the death penalty

I would say the same for a non cop. I believe attempted murder should carry the same penalty as successful murder. Why reward for incompetence?

 

[Father of four]

But in reality if he is convicted, he will get a much lessor sentence then a civilian. A civilian would get 10+ years. The Leo would resign then get rehired in another district. Maybe a few years on probation. And by the way the system is corrupt and slanted. Don't trust it. Hope it will do the right thing.

 

[Keane]

I agree with most of this, except for number 2. I think his premature weapon draw shows his instability/unreliability of judgement in the situation. (Again, from what I can tell. Not just LEO bashing)

I think that is rushing to judgment. I can consider a few points where it is justified. If you look, there are multiple police involved in the video, 1 goes for the other biker. If it was a report of a Armed and Dangerous biker or something, I could see the reason for that part of it. I am giving the benefit of the doubt, perhaps without good reason.

I would really like to know the justification for the stop. From the beginning of the video, it looks like he pulled the guys over for being a little overly-aggressive on the throttle off of a stop sign. The guy who went off the curb looks like he hit the brake a little to hard and lost control because of that.

 

[wakeadrian]

I think that is rushing to judgment. I can consider a few points where it is justified. If you look, there are multiple police involved in the video, 1 goes for the other biker. If it was a report of a Armed and Dangerous biker or something, I could see the reason for that part of it. I am giving the benefit of the doubt, perhaps without good reason.

I would really like to know the justification for the stop. From the beginning of the video, it looks like he pulled the guys over for being a little overly-aggressive on the throttle off of a stop sign. The guy who went off the curb looks like he hit the brake a little to hard and lost control because of that.

Oh, I completely understand I was rushing to judgement on that. I was more trying to point out a different point of view on it, to show that I feel it's an important detail to sort facts out of.
I'd like to know all of those other things as well.