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odds of CHL intervention?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Koda, Feb 21, 2016.

  1. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    I cant find exact numbers but Wikipedia suggests that as of 2011 there are about 8 million people licensed to carry concealed firearms in the United States. I think this is about 2% of the US population. Occasionally I read how permit applications (and gun purchases) are dramatically on the rise, such as after the San Bernardino shooting. I suspect the actual number is larger but without any sources of info its hard to say exactly. According to an Oregonian article 1 in 16 adults in Oregon are licensed, 1 in 12 had licenses in Washington and 1 in 16 in Idaho... seems much larger than 2%.

    With CHL holders on the rise and mass shootings a regular occurrence I’m wondering when will one happen where there is a CHL holder that is forced to respond? I’m wondering why we haven’t seen this yet? Yesterdays Kalamozoo shooting is heartbreaking and doesn’t appear to be in a "gun free zone". Where are the good guys?

    References:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States
    https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/question/how-many-ccw-holders-are-there/
    http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2013/10/oregon_concealed_handgun_licen_2.html
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kalamazoo-shooting-spree-suspect-jason-dalton-an-uber-driver/
     
  2. Black Dog

    Black Dog Eagle Creek Or Active Member

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    Remember if a CHL holder responds. He She will be disarmed CHL taken hand cuffed ride in a police car interrogated for hours. Then it will go to the Grand Jury and if your cleared of wrong doing you will get your CHL and Gun back. So people that don't like guns or arm themselves I'm sorry. Only my wife sons and dog are worth that much trouble. Quit counting on the L E (cops) to protect your sorry butt and get on the 2-A wagon,
     
  3. Larrytpdx

    Larrytpdx Portland, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Well spoken!
     
  4. Larrytpdx

    Larrytpdx Portland, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Excellent point!
     
    Sabertooth likes this.
  5. HarryHaller

    HarryHaller Kalama, WA Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    Mass shootings are extremely rare despite what the news tells you. In this country of over 300 million people, I don't find it that surprising that the tiny fractions of the population that are active shooters or concealed carriers haven't crossed paths that many times. It's not surprising at all that the media doesn't cover it when it happens. This is a link to 16 times concealed carriers have intervened.

    http://blog.uritraining.com/?p=88
     
  6. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    16 times is actually a lot but yeah I don’t see the media going out of their way to tell the truth about carriers intervening successfully. Thanks for sharing that link I'll add it to my bookmarks on the topic.
     
  7. Hal Jordan

    Hal Jordan Astoria Member

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    Here's an FBI study of 160 active shooter incidents between 2000 and 2013.
    • In 5 incidents (3.1%), the shooting ended after armed individuals who were not law enforcement personnel exchanged gunfire with the shooters. In these incidents, 3 shooters were killed, 1 was wounded, and 1 committed suicide.
      • The individuals involved in these shootings included a citizen with a valid firearms permit and armed security guards at a church, an airline counter, a federally managed museum, and a school board meeting.
    I've heard other people say that although they are legally carrying a concealed weapon, they wouldn't use it unless the threat was directly to themselves or their immediate family. It seems to me that if someone stood there and watched people be injured and killed, and they had the means to help but refused, that memory would be very difficult to live with. They would have nightmares about the blood and screams, and carry that regret for the rest of their days. That truly would be a self-made living hell. As for me, I would gladly go through a small inconvenience if it meant saving someone's life.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
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  8. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    this is good information, thanks for the bookmark.

    Its good to know that there has been some intervention, which appears relative to the number of CHL citizens to active shooters. It bothers me that the media doesnt cover them like they should.
     
  9. nwwoodsman

    nwwoodsman Vernonia Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    We have seen this in Oregon. It happened in Clackamas Town Center just a couple of years ago. Permit holder pulled his firearm, shoot saw it and took the cowards way out rather than face the consequences of his action, effectively ending the situation.
     
    Hal Jordan likes this.
  10. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    What the heck are you talking about?
     
  11. Black Dog

    Black Dog Eagle Creek Or Active Member

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    read 2 and then 7 & 9
     
  12. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I think it's a good thing to remember that being a CHL holder doesn't make you an LEO in the sense that you're not somehow obligated to engage an active shooter. That is a personal choice based on a lot of different factors. I think most that carry would first retreat, if that option is available. Their own lives and the lives of family with them come first.

    But for those that carry, that either find themselves with no way out but past the shooter, or perhaps find themselves unable to retreat as people are being shot, then yes, we will see this come up from time to time - but I expect it to remain a rarity. One thing to consider is that many people have their CHL/CPL, but not everyone carries all the time - in fact, I would be willing to say that many don't carry all the time. Some may not carry because their employer doesn't allow it - in fact some employers won't allow them on their property, even in your personal vehicle. Those who spend their days working in places like courthouses are also likely not carrying on a regular basis. And again, you have to consider that not every CHL holder is planning to go Dirty Harry on a bad guy with a gun. For many, I'd be willing to say it's a last resort only, and will only come out when they have no other option.

    And with that, I think the numbers of interventions will always be somewhat low. When it does happen though, I think we need to make a big deal out of it and spread the word everywhere we can.
     
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  13. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    A lot of people probably use Uber to get to and from the airport or to work where they can't be carrying their gun?
     
  14. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Not shooting the guy when you have your family with you ,or without your family,risks your family's safety. Maybe the gunman turns your way?
    Even by yourself,if you get killed,where does that leave your family?
    Kinda like my post in another thread about carrying. If you have guns at home and you get robbed when not carrying,now those guns are the bad guys' guns. And it leaves your loved ones in danger
    And all it would take is for the shooter to spin around and start shooting your way instead of the other. Or make another loop around the room
     
  15. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    You just can't have combat vets or off duty/retired LEO everywhere ,so yeah,it will stay low.
    Most of us will shyte ourselves in these situations
     
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  16. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    About a month from now, I'm taking another defensive handgun course, level 2, hoping to learn more about how to respond in various situations. I will still maintain retreat/cover will be my primary tactic, but should I have no other option, it is my sincere hope I'll be able to step up and definitely hope not to shyte myself ;)
     
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  17. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    I think Ayoob invented the diaper position about 40 years ago. Advanced stuff!

    th?&id=OIP.M3a051608aee8ba4b1189a910c205a03co0&w=299&h=199&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0.jpg

    lol
     
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  18. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Gotta spread your legs wider for better field of view and so you don't shoot your own foot:p.
     
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  19. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    With the gun or the shyte? :rolleyes:
     
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  20. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    The Cowards way out happened to be the enemy shooter saw resistance from a CC holder with a weapon and blew his own head off to me recollection.

    No one was inferring you are a coward that I can tell...