odds of CHL intervention?

[rick benjamin]

Remember if a CHL holder responds. He She will be disarmed CHL taken hand cuffed ride in a police car interrogated for hours. Then it will go to the Grand Jury and if your cleared of wrong doing you will get your CHL and Gun back. So people that don't like guns or arm themselves I'm sorry. Only my wife sons and dog are worth that much trouble. Quit counting on the L E (cops) to protect your sorry butt and get on the 2-A wagon,

What happens, happens.
I carry every day because when seconds count, LEO is minutes away.
Invested the time to read the ORS, Starrett's "Understanding Oregon Gun Laws", Ayoob's "In the gravest extreme" and others.
I pay an annual retainer to a legal team (insurance).
If ever,,,My only words will be "I'm all shook-up, may I please call my lawyer?"
LEO are good folks, I practice, play 3-gun with them.
USPSA first Saturday each month
3-gun third Sunday of each month at DRRC (calendar)
Do the best you can do, Be the best you can be.
Semper Fi

 

[Black Dog]

Yes you are right about the coward it was the shooter. Sorry for my miss understanding. But can I take the I'm old or don't read well for a copout.

 

[NSDQ]

The odds are remarkably low. You statistically have a better chance of being fatally killed in a car accident. Insurance statistics are some of the best ways to research gun statistics. Federal studies are often based on political bias whereas the insurance companies only care about how much money they have to pay out. You would be shocked to find that its extremely low unless you live in a high violent crime neighborhood. Again most of the extreme risk involves living in areas where rival gangs are contesting areas.

 

[PaulB47]

"Some of that criticism has been raised by competitors and regulators who argue that Uber's success has come as the company has expanded while seeking to avoid the strict licensing and permit requirements that traditional tax companies face."

What a convenient time to whack Uber. Never let a crisis go to waste.

I suspect if the killer was a cab driver, these people would not be saying they should do away with the cab cartel.

 

[thorborg]

odds of CHL intervention?
Opining on the original question, based half way between theory and empirical data; I know four CHL holders personally. Of the five of us, I am the only one that religiously carries with the others carrying from once in a while on weekends, maybe the odd road trip, to never. Unless this information is totally unique, any data CHL registrations could offer would skew assumptions as to how many out there might have your back. Your best source of defense is you!

 

[Koda]

odds of CHL intervention?
Opining on the original question, based half way between theory and empirical data; I know four CHL holders personally. Of the five of us, I am the only one that religiously carries with the others carrying from once in a while on weekends, maybe the odd road trip, to never. Unless this information is totally unique, any data CHL registrations could offer would skew assumptions as to how many out there might have your back. Your best source of defense is you!

I think thats a good point that plays into the odds... from what I understand the vast majority of CHL holders dont carry, they get the permit as more of a way to be a responsible gun owner or to avoid the legailities of traveling to the range or the 1 or 2 times a year they may take their gun with them somewhere like camping. I bet the odds would increase a good amount if (hypothetically) everyone that has a permit carried every day... of course thats stating the obvious.

 

[2A2Dend]

I got my CCP back in 1980. Just because I could legally carry on long road trips while out and about. I carried very rarely. Why? Back in the day there was no real reason to need to. All those years went by, and never did I think "I wish I was packing" Well, society changed that for me in 2009ish. I've packed a piece every day. All day. No matter where I am. Since I became dedicated to my permit in 2009, the scumbags who cause trouble have spread out everywhere given where you reside. I've heard some crazy stuff people have dealt with. I pack a piece for piece of mind...and being put into a position where I may have to take someones life to save mine, or someone elses has always been the furthest from my mind. I'm prepared to do so if I must.

Here's to hoping I never have to use it.
Cheers

 

[Joe13]

I got my CCP back in 1980. Just because I could legally carry on long road trips while out and about. I carried very rarely. Why? Back in the day there was no real reason to need to. All those years went by, and never did I think "I wish I was packing" Well, society changed that for me in 2009ish. I've packed a piece every day. All day. No matter where I am. Since I became dedicated to my permit in 2009, the scumbags who cause trouble have spread out everywhere given where you reside. I've heard some crazy stuff people have dealt with. I pack a piece for piece of mind...and being put into a position where I may have to take someones life to save mine, or someone elses has always been the furthest from my mind. I'm prepared to do so if I must.

Here's to hoping I never have to use it.
Cheers

Kind of same with me. Got it at 21 but only carried on Halloween or trips etc. Partly because I didn't have a good CC gun that wasn't sentimental.

Wife didn't want loaded guns in the house with a kid so that killed daily carry (that and my job was very well paying and carrying was against policy).

Now my kids grown and I have a couple smaller guns I trust my life too so I am always within reach of a pistol or shotgun at home and always have a handgun on me out in public except for very few exceptions.

 

[2A2Dend]

Kind of same with me. Got it at 21 but only carried on Halloween or trips etc. Partly because I didn't have a good CC gun that wasn't sentimental.

Wife didn't want loaded guns in the house with a kid so that killed daily carry (that and my job was very well paying and carrying was against policy).

Now my kids grown and I have a couple smaller guns I trust my life too so I am always within reach of a pistol or shotgun at home and always have a handgun on me out in public except for very few exceptions.

Yes, very similar.
Now days, if you have a CCL, and do not carry one at all times (within sensible reason of course) IMO, tear that piece of paper up. Sell your handguns. You are safe.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.Your best source of defense is you!

Absolutely. Jeff Cooper used to travel and personally train actual leaders of countries, one-on-one - pistolcraft, yada yada - even though they all had standing armies and security details at their command.

 

[PaulB47]

16 times is actually a lot but yeah I don't see the media going out of their way to tell the truth about carriers intervening successfully.

Bingo. The Ministry of Propaganda is not going to report such things. That is what the Internet is for.

As to probability of needing your gun, yes it is certainly true that I could go through life without a gun (in "normal" times anyway ) and not be at a disadvantage. But that's not who I am.

 

[Koda]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/03/us/active-shooter-crase-training/index.html

I thought this article was pertinent to this thread so wanted to add it, it seems to correlate with the FBI study posted earlier here, roughtly 3% odds an armed citizens has stopped a mass shooting....
not certain if that means an armed citizen has a 3% chance of encountering a mass shooting?

still, depending on how you look at things... thats either still realatively low odds or a significant jump in risk compared to not that many years ago....

 

[Koda]

thinking about it I dont think the odds of CHL intervention are what matters its the odds of being in a position where one has an opportunity to interveine, armed or not, looking at the study from that perspective the odds are much higher than 3%

 

[fxdc]

Gotta spread your legs wider for better field of view and so you don't shoot your own foot.

Poor example of shooting from your back on the ground.... LOL

 

[Joe13]

Poor example of shooting from your back on the ground.... LOL

Agreed

 

[Joe13]

thinking about it I dont think the odds of CHL intervention are what matters its the odds of being in a position where one has an opportunity to interveine, armed or not, looking at the study from that perspective the odds are much higher than 3%

Absolutely! You don't have to save "more then 3" people (a mass shooting) to use a gun to save someone or yourself.


Some of us will never get in a serious car wreck and others might get into many - life's a funny thing

 

[DuneHopper]

To comment on this topic:
If you do have to pull your firearm in defense keep in mind how the prosecutors look at it before you ever get a CHL or use a firearm for public protection.

1. Shut up, police and by standards are not your friends. STFU you will have adrenaline flowing thru your veins, and your BPM will be 180. so shut up .
2. When police arrive have your gun on the ground in a safe manner and not within reach and unloaded.
3. Have your ID and CHL open to show them.
   
4. Be polite but do not explain yourself give facts period.

Example : I saw a man come in the store he pull a gun an said he was going to shoot the clerk.
I pulled my revolver and the man turn and pointed the gun at me, I discharged my firearm and the man went down.

What a prosecutor and cops will ask and you need not answer is was the handgun chambered?
Do you come to this store often, where were you coming from. Any personal questions shut up.
Be polite and tell the officer you only want answer question about what happened. Not about yourself. Remember everything you say could be used against you to investigate you or allow a family to sue you. Anything you say and do can be used against you in a civil court, so even if you reserve your rights to not speak about it extras you say can be used against you if the criminals family decides to sue. Remember as well laws changed you have to invoke your right not to speak. Caution to not discuss the event can put you in a obstruction situation, but not answering about yourself is your right in most cases. I am not an attorney this is not legal advice but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[Joe13]

To comment on this topic:
If you do have to pull your firearm in defense keep in mind how the prosecutors look at it before you ever get a CHL or use a firearm for public protection.

1. Shut up, police and by standards are not your friends. STFU you will have adrenaline flowing thru your veins, and your BPM will be 180. so shut up .
2. When police arrive have your gun on the ground in a safe manner and not within reach and unloaded.
3. Have your ID and CHL open to show them.
   
4. Be polite but do not explain yourself give facts period.

Example : I saw a man come in the store he pull a gun an said he was going to shoot the clerk.
I pulled my revolver and the man turn and pointed the gun at me, I discharged my firearm and the man went down.

What a prosecutor and cops will ask and you need not answer is was the handgun chambered?
Do you come to this store often, where were you coming from. Any personal questions shut up.
Be polite and tell the officer you only want answer question about what happened. Not about yourself. Remember everything you say could be used against you to investigate you or allow a family to sue you. Anything you say and do can be used against you in a civil court, so even if you reserve your rights to not speak about it extras you say can be used against you if the criminals family decides to sue. Remember as well laws changed you have to invoke your right not to speak. Caution to not discuss the event can put you in a obstruction situation, but not answering about yourself is your right in most cases. I am not an attorney this is not legal advice but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

My response:

I want my lawyer present for any questions about this event.






It'll have me in jail for a night but I want legal counsel for every single word I speak.

Like DH said - cops are not your friends.


(My apologies to any LEO here, you have my upmost respect for the good you do and the mostly thankless job you work - but unfortunately I'm not willing to bet I have a "good" officer interviewing me or not in that situation.)

 

[Black Dog]

Also don't forget you are not going to go on a PAID vacation. You are going to sit in a jail cell until a Judge decides that you are not a flight risk and safe for the public then you can go on your own. OH and don't forget to pay your LAWYER for the next 6 mo to a year or more. And then there is the WRONGFUL DEATH suit. Then there is the lost wages and maybe a job. This list can probably go on and on. So if its not you or your family make sure the person you save would give you the time of day and not the finger if you honked at them for playing with their electronic toy.

 

[DuneHopper]

I think as has been said, unless its pretty darn obvious and its not my family my own intervention would have to be to protect a child or the elderly, and not to sound sexist but in many circumstances women. It not sexist its how I was raised has nothing to do with women being strong or weak it has to do with me respecting the elderly, women and protecting children for they often can not protect themselves. I still open doors for women of all ages and most men.
My wife carries, and she also will kick your arse and I may step up to protect women with her ability as I said how I was raised. I still call my mom shes 77 make sure she is ok every other day and stop by once a week its how I was raised. I hope the mold still stays present with my boys so far it has. Just be careful whom you protect even cops do not protect and serve. And I have a background in that and advised as was said STFU. Its an acronym,
means Stop Talking For Us, why what did you think I meant ?>?