No guns at Kaiser Gateway dentist office

[greydog111]

Just for info, I went to rhe dentist for a cleaning and noticed a no weapons sign in the window by the door. I've been going ther for years but just noticed it today. The asswipes have also added a deductable to my dental....Somethings gotta change! Too bad my open season just passed.

All Kaiser facilities have this sign. I'm an armed certified security officer and I tell them so before seeing my Doc. Never had a beef!

 

[CatCow]

All Kaiser facilities have this sign. I'm an armed certified security officer and I tell them so before seeing my Doc. Never had a beef!

Why? Are you going in wearing your security uniform and gun belt for a doctors appointment?

Two thoughts. First, if I'm going to the dentist I usually don't take my gun with me(but my recent visits haven't been a simple cleaning, either... I don't want to be armed when I'm drugged up, in fact when I was taking heavy stuff before my wisdom tooth extraction I also went and unloaded all the guns and hid the magazines too, you never know how a drug you haven't taken before is going to affect you). Second, as has been mentioned I don't think I've ever seen a medical facility WITHOUT a no guns sign. I generally ignore them unless there is a metal detector. Of course none of this applies if you are going to the VA hospital, which is a federal facility and a no-go zone.

My last encounter with a major incident went rather smoothly. I blacked out while driving and crashed. Gun fell out of holster in the wreck - I didn't realize it at first, but when I saw it on the ground I grabbed it and shoved it in my pocket real quick(this would have been harder to do if I had been wearing the G19 instead of the Sig P238!). Due to the blackout I was transported by ambulance to the hospital, and had to dig the gun out of my pocket before laying down on the stretcher. I notified the ambulance crew I had a gun in my pocket, and they were cool with it, and we even talked about guns for part of the drive. I never told anyone at the hospital, just waited for my dad to show up and gave it to him along with all the other stuff I had on me(turned out to be a week long hospital stay). The State Trooper that responded to the accident scene said he had seen that I had a CCW when he ran my license, but never said anything about it, he figured someone who was just in a wreck wasn't going to give him any trouble. When we talked later(he brought the accident report info to me in the hospital, nice guy) we spent a few minutes talking about guns, and the M&P he was carrying(I hadn't heard about OSP switching and was curious what his thoughts were, he seemed to like it). We also got a chance to talk about guns again later at the courthouse when I beat the ticket he gave me(failure to drive within a lane - no bubblegum? prior appeals court case gave me an out, hard to knowingly violate the law when you are involuntarily unconcious ).

 

[BigDaddyDMD]

TYpically they have you leave - or if you do not it is trespassing?

But I wonder - If you pushed it and was caught - would Kaiser drop you because you did not follow their rules.

Be careful of how you address it.

My thought is yes, they would discontinue you as a patient. I am a dentist in Oregon and a dental practice has the right to terminate a doctor/patient relationship if the patient "fails to comply with procedures and policies of the office". This can include showing up intoxicated, being abusive to staff, bringing a weapon, etc. etc.

As a dentist I have absolutely no issue with my patients being armed. No sedatives or mind altering meds are used during routine practice and most of my patients are active LEO or retired LEO/military. I fully support an individuals 2nd ammendment right. If my liability insurace carrier would allow it, I'd treat patients while open carrying on the hip. Unfortunatly, liability insurance for a dental/medical office is ridiculously high and all that I am aware of do not allow weapons to be present for staff or patients. This puts the doctor (even ones that support the 2A) in a bad spot.

I perfer that my patients who are armed keep it concealed unless in uniform to prevent the other patients from getting nervous in the waiting room and to give me plausible deniablity that, "I was unaware Mr. Smith had a weapon in my practice oh high and mighty liability insurance agent" Just my .02

 

[greydog111]

Why? Are you going in wearing your security uniform and gun belt for a doctors appointment?

Two thoughts. First, if I'm going to the dentist I usually don't take my gun with me(but my recent visits haven't been a simple cleaning, either... I don't want to be armed when I'm drugged up, in fact when I was taking heavy stuff before my wisdom tooth extraction I also went and unloaded all the guns and hid the magazines too, you never know how a drug you haven't taken before is going to affect you). Second, as has been mentioned I don't think I've ever seen a medical facility WITHOUT a no guns sign. I generally ignore them unless there is a metal detector. Of course none of this applies if you are going to the VA hospital, which is a federal facility and a no-go zone.

My last encounter with a major incident went rather smoothly. I blacked out while driving and crashed. Gun fell out of holster in the wreck - I didn't realize it at first, but when I saw it on the ground I grabbed it and shoved it in my pocket real quick(this would have been harder to do if I had been wearing the G19 instead of the Sig P238!). Due to the blackout I was transported by ambulance to the hospital, and had to dig the gun out of my pocket before laying down on the stretcher. I notified the ambulance crew I had a gun in my pocket, and they were cool with it, and we even talked about guns for part of the drive. I never told anyone at the hospital, just waited for my dad to show up and gave it to him along with all the other stuff I had on me(turned out to be a week long hospital stay). The State Trooper that responded to the accident scene said he had seen that I had a CCW when he ran my license, but never said anything about it, he figured someone who was just in a wreck wasn't going to give him any trouble. When we talked later(he brought the accident report info to me in the hospital, nice guy) we spent a few minutes talking about guns, and the M&P he was carrying(I hadn't heard about OSP switching and was curious what his thoughts were, he seemed to like it). We also got a chance to talk about guns again later at the courthouse when I beat the ticket he gave me(failure to drive within a lane - no bubblegum? prior appeals court case gave me an out, hard to knowingly violate the law when you are involuntarily unconcious ).

Hey Mr. Catcow. Had I wanted to include the fact of wearing a uniform and gunbelt in my post I would have stated so. No, I carry in a plainclothes capacity sometimes and always carry off the job concealed. Don't be a douche and assume idiocy when it isn't called for please! Greydog.

 

[biggie24420]

I agree with deep concealment and finding a new dentist office to visit. I don't care to do business with narrow minded ignorant mooks... that's just my opinion. I am sure there are plenty of sheep they can service who don't carry.

 

[mjbskwim]

Hey Mr. Catcow. Had I wanted to include the fact of wearing a uniform and gunbelt in my post I would have stated so. No, I carry in a plainclothes capacity sometimes and always carry off the job concealed. Don't be a douche and assume idiocy when it isn't called for please! Greydog.

SSLoooowwww down brother

Guys guys guys this isn't just a Doctor issue. They have little say when the insurance companies are involved.

What is the percentage that carries? Not enough the change the insurance companies policies,that's for sure.

It isn't the doctor or the office that is doing it,it's the insurance companies.

Now BREATH.... BREATH

And think about it.

If the doctor doesn't do as the insurance company says,they don't stay in business.
How many of you actually pay cash instead of use insurance?
I would guess that about 98.327458% of the dentist's business is from insurance patients

Who are you going to cater to?

 

[sadiesassy]

Good input - Assuming you have a private practice you can set your rules.

However, bigger places like Kaiser have corporate lawyers and insurance in their daily lives and they are doing what they think is appropriate to protect their business from lawsuits.

Smaller businesses usually have reviews with their lawyers and Insurance on focus area. I bet you will see this come up more as a liability issue to address. Maybe not this year - maybe next.

If I was a policy holder - I would read your policy closely. That is if you want to ahve insurance,

My thought is yes, they would discontinue you as a patient. I am a dentist in Oregon and a dental practice has the right to terminate a doctor/patient relationship if the patient "fails to comply with procedures and policies of the office". This can include showing up intoxicated, being abusive to staff, bringing a weapon, etc. etc.

 

[madcratebuilder]

Good input - Assuming you have a private practice you can set your rules.

Good luck finding any kind of Dr with a private practice. With the new Health Ins laws Doc's are force to be in large groups in order to make a buck. The cost of .gov mandated paper work is over the top.

 

[1stIDFMP]

It was a sillouette of a Semi A hangun on one of those decals you can kinda see from both side.

I can't believe no one stated the obvious, the sign clearly implies no semi-autos, so carry a revolver - problem solved........

 

[drew]

I can't believe no one stated the obvious, the sign clearly implies no semi-autos, so carry a revolver - problem solved........

 

[evltwn]

So...you let a 50 cent decal trump your second amendment rights, and your response is to tell US about it? I carry, because it is my right. Period. I can't remember the last time I asked my dentist if it was ok!

 

[sadiesassy]

Sometimes people take expectations to the extreme.
Makes it harder for us to retain those rights. ( Yes they can be taken away with the right composition of congress)

As was said earlier - step back and take a deep breath and realize:

Second amendment rights are not unlimited.
• You cannot carry into most Government buildings or buildings with government offices
• If a private property owner tells you or post they do not allow guns - You should be civil and not take guns in vs having to be told to leave because you are trespassing. Yes they have rights that trump your rights.
• Every state is different in what they can do - We have open carry laws - but private property owners define what is and is not allowed.

To take the position: " I carry, because it is my right. Period" is somewhat extreme and damaging to the cause.

One can only hope sanity will prevail.

So...you let a 50 cent decal trump your second amendment rights, and your response is to tell US about it? I carry, because it is my right. Period. I can't remember the last time I asked my dentist if it was ok!

 

[g.i. joe]

Sometimes people take expectations to the extreme.
Makes it harder for us to retain those rights. ( Yes they can be taken away with the right composition of congress)

As was said earlier - step back and take a deep breath and realize:

Second amendment rights are not unlimited.
• You cannot carry into most Government buildings or buildings with government offices
.

Ill take issue with this statement. Show me where the 2A states " A well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, except for in government buildings, shall not be infringed".
That would be completely contrary to the intent of our founding fathers!

 

[CharonPDX]

Took mine in to my dentist this morning. Of course, it was concealed - and stayed concealed. No sign saying I couldn't, so I can until they tell me not to. And if they don't know, they won't think to tell me not to.

If a business has a "no firearms" sign, I obey - but I don't go ASKING if they don't have a sign. Better to assume (as it allowed under Oregon law, at least,) that no sign = okay.

 

[sadiesassy]

You know GIJOE you are the poster child - You have proven it
Even when you take the CHL class you are educated on this. Go get the Oregon CHL handbook. I assume they have one for Washington also.
You do not have unlimited rights.

Wait - better yet: I really think you should attempt walk into a government court room ( at least try with your CCW) and see how well your version of unlimited rights exist. Tells us the date , time so we can watch you explain your rights.

Ill take issue with this statement. Show me where the 2A states " A well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, except for in government buildings, shall not be infringed".
That would be completely contrary to the intent of our founding fathers!

 

[iusmc2002]

My thought is yes, they would discontinue you as a patient. I am a dentist in Oregon and a dental practice has the right to terminate a doctor/patient relationship if the patient "fails to comply with procedures and policies of the office". This can include showing up intoxicated, being abusive to staff, bringing a weapon, etc. etc.

As a dentist I have absolutely no issue with my patients being armed. No sedatives or mind altering meds are used during routine practice and most of my patients are active LEO or retired LEO/military. I fully support an individuals 2nd ammendment right. If my liability insurace carrier would allow it, I'd treat patients while open carrying on the hip. Unfortunatly, liability insurance for a dental/medical office is ridiculously high and all that I am aware of do not allow weapons to be present for staff or patients. This puts the doctor (even ones that support the 2A) in a bad spot.

I perfer that my patients who are armed keep it concealed unless in uniform to prevent the other patients from getting nervous in the waiting room and to give me plausible deniablity that, "I was unaware Mr. Smith had a weapon in my practice oh high and mighty liability insurance agent" Just my .02

I like you! Too bad you're so damn far away because I have to go to the dentist on Monday

But if they dropped him, wouldn't he be able to choose a different insurance scam, I mean policy, from someone else? So I would think thats maybe a good thing?

 

[mkwerx]

Kaiser is also the health care provider who got in hot water here in Oregon because of their questionaire which included questions about gun ownership for state employees, and trying to jack up rates for those who answered that they owned guns or shot them. Kaiser isn't a really gun-friendly company.

Worst they can ask you to do is leave, and probably drop your coverage. So long as you leave - there's no trespass charge against you and you've done nothing wrong.

 

[marty8587]

Mainly I wanted to let everyone know of their policy regarding weapons. If I knew in advance I could prepare to secure the weapon in my car while in the dentist office. I never asked the dentist if it was OK or not, but this policy (which is their right) coupled with higher rates and less service makes me think a change in insurance companies is in order.

 

[Nutty4Guns]

I always carry when I go to any Kaiser office. I have never been "made" because concealed means concealed.

 

[evltwn]

Lets examine this just a little deeper, shall we? We KNOW what the second Amendment says...all other laws passed since them that "infringe", do JUST THAT, so just to be clear, I am not impressed with any laws that deny rights given in that document. That said, sure, I will get arrested if I carry into a courthouse, sherrifs office or post office.

But if my dentist, Tinseltown or other business decide to infringe on my rights, I will quite simply, ignore them. I carry concealed, so they will never know to begin with, but consider what kind of sheep you have become if someone's personal or corporate interpretation cows you into believing they have the legal, let alone MORAL right to abridge the Constitution.

I fought for rights of everyone in this country...yes, even those with whom I completely disagree, but I will not bow to the b.s of antigunners who choose to ignore my unalienable rights.