NBC-TV LIES ABOUT REMINGTON

[swoop]

The 700 wasn't introduced until 1962. Your brother-in-law must be a pretty special guy.

He probably means 721 or 722 built in the late 40's. I have a 721 that's been in the family for over 60yrs. Never a problem.

 

[Jamie6.5]

I would consider any gun that fires without the trigger being pulled worthy of demonization. I would not want on ein my hands or anywhere near me. From the stories I have heard the gun does indeed fire on it's own.

Then I suggest you maintain it properly and/or have a qualified gunsmith do it. As well as make any necessary repairs and/or adjustments.
And while you're at it, practice muzzle discipline like someone's life depends on it, (because it does). Unlike the "victims" in CNBC's hit piece.

 

[Jamie6.5]

That is very interesting. Could you please cite your source for that statistic?

Since the documented percentage of unintended firings of unmodified M700s that is the fault of the gun is in the range of .00001%, I feel very safe in making that statement.

There isn't a news organization anywhere that can match that percentage in terms of reporting the facts.
Most if not all mainstream news organizations are currently supporting an agenda. One of NBC's most prevalent is the anti-gun agenda.
If one tallies up their anti-gun story minutes, and compares them to their pro-gun minutes, it becomes obvious.
If you support them, that's your business.
But it makes me wonder why you are here.

 

[Sling Blade]

Does anyone know if the (alledged) safety issue covers certain years or production runs?

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Since the documented percentage of unintended firings of unmodified M700s that is the fault of the gun is in the range of .00001%, I feel very safe in making that statement.

There isn't a news organization anywhere that can match that percentage in terms of reporting the facts.
Most if not all mainstream news organizations are currently supporting an agenda. One of NBC's most prevalent is the anti-gun agenda.
If one tallies up their anti-gun story minutes, and compares them to their pro-gun minutes, it becomes obvious.
If you support them, that's your business.
But it makes me wonder why you are here.

Where are you getting the figures of guns needing repairs?

 

[VW_Factor]

Where are you getting the figures of guns needing repairs?

.00001 is a hard figure to come up with at all. I know there are a lot of these guns produced and out there, but I do not think there are enough out there for even a SINGLE rifle to come in for repair.. That it would reach the minuscule amount of .00001% of all the unmodded rifles..

 

[Jamie6.5]

The only reason I used that figure VW, is because Remington offered a free retro fit of the original trigger/safety mechanism back about 1980. That was the initial build design that wouldn't allow one to open the bolt with the safety on. That issue was resolved years ago.
There have been over 5,000,000 M700s built/sold since they came out. That allows for 50 unmodified, properly maintained bad ones, which, if mis-handled, could result in 50 tragedies.
Properly handled however, the rate of tragedy drops even lower.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Bottom line is all one really needs to do is listen to the "experts" quoted in the CNBC show, when they are queried by Remington.
Watch the 14 minute show linked in post #4 of this thread. I know its produced by Remington, but when the very same experts are on camera telling "the rest of the story," it's pretty compelling.

Unless your mind is already made up.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

The only reason I used that figure VW, is because Remington offered a free retro fit of the original trigger/safety mechanism back about 1980. That was the initial build design that wouldn't allow one to open the bolt with the safety on. That issue was resolved years ago.
There have been over 5,000,000 M700s built/sold since they came out. That allows for 50 unmodified, properly maintained bad ones, which, if mis-handled, could result in 50 tragedies.
Properly handled however, the rate of tragedy drops even lower.

Are you implying in your math that every misfire most involve a tragedy? The guy I spoke to said one went off while his father-n-law was holding it and then his own went off years later while he was holding. He said he felt bad about giving his father-n-law a hard time when it happened to him but I would not consider that a tragedy. That is two misfires right there. So you are saying 50 is your guess at how many times these guns have misfired?

 

[Trlsmn]

I would consider any gun that fires without the trigger being pulled worthy of demonization. I would not want on ein my hands or anywhere near me. From the stories I have heard the gun does indeed fire on it's own.

If we change the object from rifle to automobile and considered that 5 million Mustangs built between 1964 and 1980 with full maintenance, to very little, to no maintenance had a brake failure rate of .00001% over 46 years it would likely be considered the best made car in history. Just sayin'

 

[saread]

Google something like: "Remington problem" or "Remington misfire" and start looking through the various forums and threads that come up - pre and post Oct. 2010. I know this is the internet, and this method is entirely unscientific, but the frequency with which people note this problem with their 700s seems more than coincidence.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Yeah, if you can show that the brakes do or do not fail under normal use with proper maintainance. Also, brake failures rarely result in full brake loss.

Then you also have to establish that the percentage given is correct. I am betting the rate of failure of this rifle is much, much higher.

I am not an ideologue in any aspect of my life. I do not have to support a political opinion simply because it comes from my party, and I do not have to defend a firearm just because it is a firearm. If it has issues let them be known and do not make excuses for the manufacturer.

 

[Scott]

I have 17 Remingtons and not one has ever failed me period. If you watch Remingtons rebuttel on their website not one of the CBS's expert could reproduce the failure on any rifle. The ones that people said misfired where tampered with by the people who owned them. The cops near the end just showing them closing the bolt and it firing refused to give Remington the gun. Wonder why? Most used gun by military and law enforcement and I have used my share.

Idiots playing with triggers and safeties and that is what you deserve for being stupid. Too many dumb a??'s out there playing gunsmith and them try to blame someone else for their stupidity.

Every gun Remington got was tampered with period.

Thats why I won't buy a gun that people build, I won't buy ammo people load because many or most don't know what they are doing. This is a old story and CBS should shut their mouth and show proof instead of letting people just tell them without taking the gun to Remington to examine with CBS right there. They can't do that because they know they are full of it.

 

[VW_Factor]

The only reason I used that figure VW, is because Remington offered a free retro fit of the original trigger/safety mechanism back about 1980. That was the initial build design that wouldn't allow one to open the bolt with the safety on. That issue was resolved years ago.
There have been over 5,000,000 M700s built/sold since they came out. That allows for 50 unmodified, properly maintained bad ones, which, if mis-handled, could result in 50 tragedies.
Properly handled however, the rate of tragedy drops even lower.

I did some quick math. Out of 5,000,000 700's made for your .00001% figure to be correct. That would be exactly 1 HALF of 1 complete rifle.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Are you implying in your math that every misfire most involve a tragedy?

Hardly. But if a tragedy is involved, most often a lawsuit will follow. Have there been 50 lawsuits against Remington over this?
Not that I have heard of,... You?

So, let me get this straight,... First you said this:

I was in brightwater the other day and I would have sworn someone came in with the same issue. They told him Remington was aware of the issue and would fix it. So it seems like it is not a smear campaign at all, but more like a public service announcement.

Which implies that you overheard part of a conversation,... (You would have sworn?)
And now you say this:

The guy I spoke to said one went off while his father-n-law was holding it and then his own went off years later while he was holding. He said he felt bad about giving his father-n-law a hard time when it happened to him but I would not consider that a tragedy. That is two misfires right there. So you are saying 50 is your guess at how many times these guns have misfired?

So which is it?

I've had a (borrowed) M700 go off on me too. But after what had happened when I fell down with it I wasn't surprised. Plus it was the old design trigger assy, which Remington had offered to replace. Because the owner hadn't met his obligation, I couldn't open the bolt and empty the chamber before disengaging the safety.
Neither contribution to the problem was Remington's fault. They were obliged to remedy their initial error and would have done so,... If the gun owner hadn't been NEGLIGENT!
I do however get the credit for ensuring the gun was pointed in a safe direction before messing with the safety or the bolt. And I no longer take a borrowed gun on a hunt.
Hence, no lawsuit, and nothing for an anti-gun network to chase me down the street over, in their efforts to sensationally slam the builder of the world's most popular centerfire sporting rifle.

 

[Jamie6.5]

I did some quick math. Out of 5,000,000 700's made for your .00001% figure to be correct. That would be exactly 1 HALF of 1 complete rifle.

5,000,000 X .00001 = 50

 

[Trlsmn]

5,000,000 X .00001 = 50

I make this mistake occasionally with percentages, you need to consider that you start with 100% not 1% then the math will come out correctly.

 

[VW_Factor]

5,000,000 X .00001 = 50

Let me google that for you

Edit : the figure .001% is 50 "rifles" of 5mil. Which perhaps would be a more believable figure. Its prudent to be careful about numbers picked out of the air. 99% of statistics are founded this way.. >.> (That is sarcasim btw.. )

 

[saread]

I've had a (borrowed) M700 go off on me too. But after what had happened when I fell down with it I wasn't surprised. Plus it was the old design trigger assy, which Remington had offered to replace. Because the owner hadn't met his obligation, I couldn't open the bolt and empty the chamber before disengaging the safety.
Neither contribution to the problem was Remington's fault. They were obliged to remedy their initial error and would have done so,... If the gun owner hadn't been NEGLIGENT!
I do however get the credit for ensuring the gun was pointed in a safe direction before messing with the safety or the bolt. And I no longer take a borrowed gun on a hunt.
Hence, no lawsuit, and nothing for an anti-gun network to chase me down the street over, in their efforts to sensationally slam the builder of the world's most popular centerfire sporting rifle.

So, let me understand, you have had an AD and it was not a fault of Remington's because:

1. You fell down with the firearm.
2. Remington had offered to replace the trigger mechanism, but the owner hadn't had it done.
3. You had to take the safety off to empty the chamber.

You know, where I come from, any firearm that discharges at any time other than when I pull the trigger with the safety(s) off is by definition a defective firearm. No amount of rationalization changes that.

 

[Jamie6.5]

So, let me understand, you have had an AD and it was not a fault of Remington's because:

1. You fell down with the firearm.

And when I did, I foolishly had my finger in the trigger guard and squeezed hard on the trigger. When the gun came down butt first, (I made sure as I fell, the muzzle was pointed into the air) a good portion of my weight was transferred into trigger-pull. That's not Remington's fault.

1. Remington had offered to replace the trigger mechanism, but the owner hadn't had it done.
2. You had to take the safety off to empty the chamber.

You know, where I come from, any firearm that discharges at any time other than when I pull the trigger with the safety(s) off is by definition a defective firearm. No amount of rationalization changes that.

You know, where I come from, people make mistakes. Company's products exhibit design flaws post production. An ethical company does their best to remedy those design flaws with expedience and competence.
Remington did that. They publicly posted advertisements everywhere guns were sold and/or written about. They sent letters to warranty-registered owners. They would replace the trigger/safety assemblies for free, regardless of the gun's age or condition.
Not at all like Ford and the Pinto etc.

Spare us the diatribe. Play it safe. Don't hunt and question seriously your ability to handle a gun safely if you expect a mechanical device to secure yourself. And if you find that you have squeezed hard on the trigger of your gun with the safety engaged, do what I did and point it in a safe direction before you take the safety off.
Winchester and Browning and Ruger owners have all reported the same thing happening under the same circumstances.

It's a mechanical device folks. Mishandled, maladjusted and/or neglected it is prone to (mal)function outside of design parameters.
That is an engineering and mechanical fact of life.
Get over it and change the channel.