Most accurate dies for precision handloading.

[WardogWoodcock]

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[jordanka16]

For factory chambers I am partial to forster dies, the sliding chamber in the seating die especially makes a big difference. If you're shooting benchrest or have a rifle with a tight neck then a bushing sizing die combined with neck turning is the way to go.

Lee collet neck sizing dies are well known for making precise ammo, but you will need to combine it with a full length or body sizing die because eventually the cases will grow too large to chamber with neck sizing alone.

For my bolt actions I full lengh size everytime, I have the die set up to push the shoulder back only .001-.002, this gives long case life, great accuracy, and reliable chambering.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Dies that are cut with the same reamer used to ream your chamber.. standard procedure for benchrest rigs etc.

 

[DizzyJ]

???

How accurate do you want to go?

Do you have the tools necessary to verify the ammo is good?

How good are you behind the trigger? Good enough to tell the difference?

Are you willing to sort brass based on runout and weight?

Most dies will do a good job. It's usually the expander ball that can throw things off. If you're going to use the ball expander that comes with most dies, make sure you lube the inside of the case necks. Otherwise cull the brass based on neck thickness run out and use a bushing style neck sizing die.

Another method is to size the brass with the die (minus the expander ball), and then use an expander mandrel in a separate step to resize the inside of the case neck.

You'll also want a competition style bullet seating die. I usually go with the micrometer adjustable model by Forster. It uses a sleeve to ensure the bullet stays true to the axis of the cartridge. Run out is NOT your friend when it comes to making small groups at long distance.


Word of warning. This is a rabbit hole you might want to seriously research before diving into. It's a lot of time and effort, and your wallet will be screaming at you in short order! Don't ask me how I know

 

[Goosebrown]

LE Wilson hand dies on an arbor press.

Less accurate are Redding and forester competition dies.

You need a bunch of stuff for case prep too. LE Wilson case trimmer. K&M neck turner. Redding scale and get calibration weights.

Buy Lapua brass. Nothing else. Save tears.

Have fun.

 

[Greenbug]

Mostly technique and consistency in reloading practices to achieve your desired results. That being said, a great reloader can build accurate ammo with mediocre equipment and amazing ammo with great equipment. Learn how to use your equipment properly and consistently (same motion, force, etcetera every time). Generally the price of the equipment you are buying relative to other brands will tell you quite a bit about the quality. Wilson, Redding, Forster dies are very good, the RCBS & Lee stuff will be good enough for hunting type accuracy for most reloaders' skill level.

 

[Crohnos01]

I have a RCBS gold competition die for seating my 22-250 rounds. Has a nice window in the side to drop the bullet in and make sure it stays straight as well as a micrometer on the top.... works for me.

 

[P7M13]

I would argue, unless your rifle is bolted to a calibrated rig and you don't touch the thing, most any manufacturer's die will have little effect on the accuracy of your rifle. Poorly manufactured crap, yes.
To wit : the equivalent in mathematics, are you focusing on the "accuracy" of the 15th-20th decimal point digits in the number Pi. When you get to that level, you need to focus on the "accuracy" of your rifle's chamber, the consistency of the bullet point, weight, metplat shape, etc.

 

[tac]

I assume that you are a good customer of Sinclair, and have their meplat regulator device, bullet run-out gauge, and ogive comparator, as well as the precision neck-trimmer, primer hole swage/reamer and case volume gauge?

Also that after meplat regularising, you batch-grade your Berger or JLS bullets within 1/10gr increment?

Called me spoiled, but I don't have any of that gear...but then all I have to hit is a 9" disc at any distance up to 900m.* 'snot like I'm a precision shooter or bench-rester or anything like that.

I have to admit that I batch my bullets for .308Win. I buy Lapua Scenar in 500s - Berger are now almost a Benjamin over here, AND I have a fair drive to collect them on the busiest highways in the entire yUK. As much fun as setting your nose-hair afire.

tac

* - anybody like to hazard a guess as to why that size?

 

[Goosebrown]

I would argue, unless your rifle is bolted to a calibrated rig and you don't touch the thing, most any manufacturer's die will have little effect on the accuracy of your rifle. Poorly manufactured crap, yes.
To wit : the equivalent in mathematics, are you focusing on the "accuracy" of the 15th-20th decimal point digits in the number Pi. When you get to that level, you need to focus on the "accuracy" of your rifle's chamber, the consistency of the bullet point, weight, metplat shape, etc.

Respectfully no. The quality of die controls a lot of the accuracy of your reloads. Not everything but a lot.

For the sizer a poor quality one can overwork your brass and deform the neck against your button expander. The better dies decap separately and size the exterior only. Then you expand to a specific mandrel to get your neck tension.

For the seater if there is any play around the neck the bullet can be pushed in off center causing run-out. The top of the line RCBS (as mentioned above) and Redding are very good but the LE Wilson chamber seating die is unparalleled.

Everything you do in reloading is important and getting the right dies is really important for your overall precision. And it is a problem you can spend money to fix rather than a technique you need to master.

You should research what the shooters you are going to compete against are doing and you should do AT LEAST that.

 

[Goosebrown]

I assume that you are a good customer of Sinclair, and have their meplat regulator device, bullet run-out gauge, and ogive comparator, as well as the precision neck-trimmer, primer hole swage/reamer and case volume gauge?

Also that after meplat regularising, you batch-grade your Berger or JLS bullets within 1/10gr increment?
.

I use K&M rather than Sinclair. Also I point my VLDs rather than trim the meplats. I sort bullets. I sort cases. This weekend is my first go at the sierra tipped match kings so we'll see how that works out.

I think you shoot better than I do to keep 1 MOA at 900m

 

[tac]

Maybe so, but I'm not trying to make a group - just a hit.

tac

 

[Goosebrown]

Maybe so, but I'm not trying to make a group - just a hit.

tac

Indeed. Much more practical. I am looking for group size as well. Good lesson on how different disciplines are looking for different things.

That is why I try and ask what they're going to be shooting.

 

[WardogWoodcock]

Thanks guys. Looks like I'm going to be getting the Le Wison setup. I'm fairly new to hand loading. So far I have 3 presses that are single stage. RCBS, Hornady and a Redding. What all do I need to order for the Le Wison setup? I'm going to want to load 6.5 Creedmoor and 300 Win Mag on the wilson.

 

[Goosebrown]

I think you can call Wilson and ask them. What you'll need is an arbor press, and I got mine at K&M precision reloading. If you want to get the pressure gauge then get the less sensitive of the two. You will need the bushing Wilson resizing die and you need to determine what bushings you need. Redding bushings work so you can get them from brownells or midway.

If you don't know how to pick a bushing, let us know, and we can go through that.

For the resizing die, they have an accessory which is a little stand for the day to sit on, with a hole in it for the primer to fall through while decapping. Very handy.

Also, I think they have two resizing days, one of which includes a body die so that it bumps your shoulder back.

If you don't use this die, you'll need to get a separate die from Reading just to bump the shoulder back, it's cheap. You use it after you reload each case five or six times and your case shoulder is too far forward. The symptom on this is the bolt will get very hard to close.

You will also need the Chamber type seater die. You do not need the one with the micrometer, but for load development it is nice to have it.

Note that there is a separate seater stem for VLD bullets. It's only a couple bucks. But it is better if you're going to use low drag projectiles. You may want that if you're looking long range precision

 

[Goosebrown]

How precise do you want to be?

If you're interested there is an advanced reloading class on Jan 13th or 20th. If you're interested I will connect you. That is going to be in Sherwood and it is for medium and long range precision shooting. Lots of good info there

 

[Certaindeaf]

A lot of accuracy records have been made with the Lee Loader.
They sell new for like $25?

 

[WardogWoodcock]

I think you can call Wilson and ask them. What you'll need is an arbor press, and I got mine at K&M precision reloading. If you want to get the pressure gauge then get the less sensitive of the two. You will need the bushing Wilson resizing die and you need to determine what bushings you need. Redding bushings work so you can get them from brownells or midway.

If you don't know how to pick a bushing, let us know, and we can go through that.

For the resizing die, they have an accessory which is a little stand for the day to sit on, with a hole in it for the primer to fall through while decapping. Very handy.

Also, I think they have two resizing days, one of which includes a body die so that it bumps your shoulder back.

If you don't use this die, you'll need to get a separate die from Reading just to bump the shoulder back, it's cheap. You use it after you reload each case five or six times and your case shoulder is too far forward. The symptom on this is the bolt will get very hard to close.

You will also need the Chamber type seater die. You do not need the one with the micrometer, but for load development it is nice to have it.

Note that there is a separate seater stem for VLD bullets. It's only a couple bucks. But it is better if you're going to use low drag projectiles. You may want that if you're looking long range precision

Thanks for the help Goose, I don't know how to pick a bushing if you could help me with choosing which size to get for 6.5 Creedmoor and 300 Win mag and how to determine the size needed.

 

[DizzyJ]

How precise do you want to be?

If you're interested there is an advanced reloading class on Jan 13th or 20th. If you're interested I will connect you. That is going to be in Sherwood and it is for medium and long range precision shooting. Lots of good info there

I might be interested in that class depending on what they cover and what the cost is.

If you wanna pm me the details, that would be great!

 

[Goosebrown]

Thanks for the help Goose, I don't know how to pick a bushing if you could help me with choosing which size to get for 6.5 Creedmoor and 300 Win mag and how to determine the size needed.

Best idea is to call tech support at Redding reloading. The guy there explains it really well. Worth the call.

Here goes my version of it.

All reloading is about being absolutely consistent in practice after finding the sweet spot of bullet and charge. A lot of that is brass prep and a big hunk of THAT is getting the right and consistent neck tension.

A bushing die let's you control that by changing the diameter you squeeze the neck down to. The theory has some flaws but it's a good place to start.

To get the correct bushing you have two ways to do it. Take a piece of loaded ammo with the brass and bullet you want to use and measure the outside diameter with your calipers. Do a few rounds and turn them as you measure then average the measurements.

Then think about how much pressure on the bullet you want to have and subtract that twice. For instance with 6mm I might get an average outer diameter of the loaded round of .273" and I may want a bullet tension of .002" so I subtract that twice (one for each side of the bullet) giving me a bushing size of .269. That is the easy way.

The harder way is to measure the bullet and get the average. .243 in my case. Then get an average measurement of the case wall of your brass and add that to the bullet diameter twice. In my case .015 (x2). Then take the amount of pressure away twice. In my case .002". This leaves .269". This is the better method because you account for each component separately and can find anomalies that might be there.

The variables that are going to account for most variations are brass wall thickness and the amount of tension you want to add. Some guys like ..003" tension or more.

If you want to really control the pressure though you might want to think about turning your necks. This will regularize the case wall. If you go that route call Rodger at K&M precision reloading. And he can set you up and explain how to use the tools.

All this presupposes that you anneal your brass which effects the hardness of the brass and thus spring back and tension. That is another can of worms. I borrow time on others machines. I don't have one myself. I anneal every third or fourth reload. Hotter calibers like 300WM will hatden faster than your 6.5. Lower temperatures aid in case life and hardness.

Many reloader, not me, get multiple bushings to allow for trying different tensions.

I do this slightly differently. I undersized my bushing slightly to make the neck ID too tight. Then I use a custom mandrel ($20 from K&M) to expand to my correct ID of .243" which with the spring back of the brass gives me light tension. I also have a mandrel in .239" for higher tension which does not shoot as well for me.

Hope that helps.