Most accurate dies for precision handloading.

[WardogWoodcock]

Best idea is to call tech support at Redding reloading. The guy there explains it really well. Worth the call.

Here goes my version of it.

All reloading is about being absolutely consistent in practice after finding the sweet spot of bullet and charge. A lot of that is brass prep and a big hunk of THAT is getting the right and consistent neck tension.

A bushing die let's you control that by changing the diameter you squeeze the neck down to. The theory has some flaws but it's a good place to start.

To get the correct bushing you have two ways to do it. Take a piece of loaded ammo with the brass and bullet you want to use and measure the outside diameter with your calipers. Do a few rounds and turn them as you measure then average the measurements.

Then think about how much pressure on the bullet you want to have and subtract that twice. For instance with 6mm I might get an average outer diameter of the loaded round of .273" and I may want a bullet tension of .002" so I subtract that twice (one for each side of the bullet) giving me a bushing size of .269. That is the easy way.

The harder way is to measure the bullet and get the average. .243 in my case. Then get an average measurement of the case wall of your brass and add that to the bullet diameter twice. In my case .015 (x2). Then take the amount of pressure away twice. In my case .002". This leaves .269". This is the better method because you account for each component separately and can find anomalies that might be there.

The variables that are going to account for most variations are brass wall thickness and the amount of tension you want to add. Some guys like ..003" tension or more.

If you want to really control the pressure though you might want to think about turning your necks. This will regularize the case wall. If you go that route call Rodger at K&M precision reloading. And he can set you up and explain how to use the tools.

All this presupposes that you anneal your brass which effects the hardness of the brass and thus spring back and tension. That is another can of worms. I borrow time on others machines. I don't have one myself. I anneal every third or fourth reload. Hotter calibers like 300WM will hatden faster than your 6.5. Lower temperatures aid in case life and hardness.

Many reloader, not me, get multiple bushings to allow for trying different tensions.

I do this slightly differently. I undersized my bushing slightly to make the neck ID too tight. Then I use a custom mandrel ($20 from K&M) to expand to my correct ID of .243" which with the spring back of the brass gives me light tension. I also have a mandrel in .239" for higher tension which does not shoot as well for me.

Hope that helps.

Very helpful, thank you very much for taking the time to explain.

 

[Goosebrown]

Very helpful, thank you very much for taking the time to explain.

YW. verify it all. Talk to Redding. They're great!

 

[rcnpthfndr]

just to touch on what goose has discussed. you will find that bushing and bumping changes by bullet manufacturer as much as either jamming the lands or jumping into them does.

as someone said in previous posts are you or your equipment at that level. if not you are just wasting money

here is a good read
Secrets of the Houston Warehouse – Lessons In Extreme Rifle Accuracy

 

[RVTECH]

For factory chambers I am partial to forster dies, the sliding chamber in the seating die especially makes a big difference.

Ditto this - I happened upon a couple sets of these with some old reloading stuff I was given and one set was in .223 I can use. The sliding chamber holds the bullet perfectly vertical while it is being seated with no chance of it starting into the case neck off center.

 

[Goosebrown]

Ditto this - I happened upon a couple sets of these with some old reloading stuff I was given and one set was in .223 I can use. The sliding chamber holds the bullet perfectly vertical while it is being seated with no chance of it starting into the case neck off center.

The forester coax is a great press. Good dies but I never got into them so I don't talk about them. Not left out for quality in any way.

 

[Goosebrown]

just to touch on what goose has discussed. you will find that bushing and bumping changes by bullet manufacturer as much as either jamming the lands or jumping into them does.

as someone said in previous posts are you or your equipment at that level. if not you are just wasting money

here is a good read
Secrets of the Houston Warehouse – Lessons In Extreme Rifle Accuracy

It all depends on what you want to do. Punching paper is more expensive than just about everything else.

I find jump or jam is a pretty small variable. Worth figuring out but less than good brass prep.

 

[RVTECH]

The forester coax is a great press.

Yep - I have one of them also - probably the BEST SS press there is.

 

[Goosebrown]

Yep - I have one of them also - probably the BEST SS press there is.

I agree. I bought Redding on price. Hornady and RCBS on the presses are great too. Forester though is different and well thought out

 

[Otter]

Thanks guys. Looks like I'm going to be getting the Le Wison setup. I'm fairly new to hand loading. So far I have 3 presses that are single stage. RCBS, Hornady and a Redding. What all do I need to order for the Le Wison setup? I'm going to want to load 6.5 Creedmoor and 300 Win Mag on the wilson.

Before you buy a Wilson neck sizing die, be sure to read up on the difference between neck sizing and full length sizing. Neck sizing was advocated in the past, but now the thinking is to use a good full length sizing die with bushings for best accuracy. Wilson does not offer a FL sizing die because an Arbor press typically can't generate enough force to FL size. (I quit neck sizing after I started getting neck sized cases stuck in a few chambers. Accuracy either stayed the same or improved.)

My favorite off the shelf sizing dies are Redding Type S full length dies. Be sure to buy a couple of different sized bushings based on what you were already told. I usually buy the exact size I think I need, and then one .001 bigger and .001 smaller. Neck tension created by the bushings can influence accuracy so nice to have a couple extra. I do have a couple of custom made dies, and honestly I don't think they do any better than the Type S dies.

For seating, all I now use are Wilson inline seating dies and you are well advised to buy them. If you load the same caliber for a couple different rifles, or use a variety of bullets in the same gun, the micrometer seating feature is worth the extra money.

 

[Member 5605]

Attention to detail is more important than the dies.

Buy the most expensive die set and don't pay attention.... bad munitions.

Buy a cheap set of 50 year old dies from a box at a garage sale and pay attention; you can have wonderful ammo that's precise.

The die is a tool that the muscle between your ears must know how to use. I run Lee dies and some RCBS. There is no difference in quality of ammo coming out of either die set, I run the same detailed process for both types.

 

[Otter]

I have to agree attention to detail makes or breaks the operation. Attached is a load development target. Who would think .005 of seating depth change could make such a difference in group size. If it only happened once, I could pass it off an anomaly or blame the wind, but you can see at both powder charges it made a difference.

 

[DizzyJ]

I have to agree attention to detail makes or breaks the operation. Attached is a load development target. Who would think .005 of seating depth change could make such a difference in group size. If it only happened once, I could pass it off an anomaly or blame the wind, but you can see at both powder charges it made a difference.

View attachment 417792

Oh my! Where did you get that template???!!!!

 

[Otter]

I did it myself. I use Microsoft Publisher to make my targets. I can send you what I have made and you can modify for your own use, provided you have Publisher.

 

[DizzyJ]

I did it myself. I use Microsoft Publisher to make my targets. I can send you what I have made and you can modify for your own use, provided you have Publisher.

I'm not very tech savvy, but maybe? Lol!

 

[PaulB47]

Wilson arbor dies. They don't work in your Rock Chucker; you need to buy an arbor press. You can run them almost as fast as regular dies. The older ones rusted too easily for my taste, but they are probably better in that respect now.

 

[Goosebrown]

Wilson arbor dies. They don't work in your Rock Chucker; you need to buy an arbor press. You can run them almost as fast as regular dies. The older ones rusted too easily for my taste, but they are probably better in that respect now.

You need to oil them when you're done then put them in the little plastic bags they come in.

 

[WardogWoodcock]

Thanks for all the informative input
everyone

 

[gmerkt]

anybody like to hazard a guess as to why that size?

I'm gonna take a wild guess. 900 meters is a taste under 1,000 yards. The range was founded in Imperial units, was later converted to metric.

 

[tac]

I'm gonna take a wild guess. 900 meters is a taste under 1,000 yards. The range was founded in Imperial units, was later converted to metric.

Nope, the range is in Hungary, where they are metric. Here in UK only military ranges are metric- the rest of our ranges just pretend to make the 'authorities' happy. The truth is that nobody really gives a rat's a$$

If you recall, I wrote 'but then all I have to hit is a 9" disc at any distance up to 900m.' That's because that is roughly the size of a human head, and maximum range I get to shoot at it is 900m. Anywhere on it will do, so long as it falls over, and most do, based on the established fact that a head hit, even at 900m, is going to cause sufficient damage for the person who owns that particular head to stop taking interest in what is happening.

 

[gmerkt]

the range is in Hungary

Well, I wouldn't have guessed you are travelling to Hungary from UK to do your shooting.

I do cleave to the idea of human head size proficiency as good enough shooting. The black ball on my paper military targets is about the size of a human head. My own capabilities do not extend to ranges such as 900 meters. Or is it metres?