More Target Shooting Trouble in the forest...

[Member 34319]

See, I think that is were I get into disagreements with a lot of those that see things like they always have been.

The common attitude as you put it @RVTECH is that folks like you, and trust me I'm one of them, have been doing this for a long time.

What your not calculating into the equation, is the last 8 years of new gun sales. Obama sure did one thing well, sell guns.

With that, the increased number of folks now utilizing the forest for recreational shooting is not what it was. It is a lot larger. Also highly uneducated.

Another miscalculation is tax revenue and allocations.

Some reason folks don't get how that works. Maybe because their mistrust of the government means they don't want to get involved and learn more.

Without exact numbers even I look silly talking about it.

However, I know enough to know that across the country agencies managing public lands don't get enough funds. They are so tight on funding they routinely have to lay off employees, put in for more funding the year after, hope they get it, then rehire.

Combine those two things and you have a problem.

This is a brainstorming thread. Nothing really has been decided within any agencies mindset on any of this.

A lot of what has been discussed by myself has been discussed however. So from that notion, I a recreational shooter, would rather have some input and get involved, than have no voice in the decision and let the governing agencies figure it out on their own.

 

[Koda]

I would think the name of the organization should immediately establish it is a pro-shooting organization. With all due respect Trash No Land suggests an environmental cause instead of something sporting or recreational. Maybe 'No Polluter Shooters' or 'EnviroGuns' - Ok you get my point.

Trash No Land (TNL) has always appeard to be a pro-shooting organization to me. All it takes is 1 visit to their website.


Also im seeing a few things in this thread that arent clear...
- the classroom idea is all volunteer attendance and not a requirement to shoot on public land. Nobody HAS to take the class in order to shoot on public lands. The idea is to help new shooters learn etiquette and responsibilities of shooting on public lands... Like whats legal, safe, and to clean up after themselves.
-there are no RSOs out there.

 

[Rem700..300]

We are going to do some cleaning of the shooting areas off the Marys Peak Harlan turn off Sunday morning if anyone would like to join. Will probably get up there arround 8ish. Getting pretty trashed. Even left the bags of not shot up bottles.

 

[moose]

Perhaps a more Macavellian response would work. Consider a road where people regularly speed. The cops randomly write a few tickets, the word gets around and people slow down. We pay for all this law enforcement, how about it's used in a more proactive method (say, rather than harrass people if they are citizens or not).

 

[Dungannon]

People will dump trash in the woods, no matter what we do. What I hate to see is wide-open access to the few places that offer rifle shooting potential. If parking was by the side of the road, but the shooting area was 50 yards away and protected by logs and boulders, you could walk in with your gear but it would really discourage those dumping couches, appliances, TVs, etc. Would they still dump that stuff? Sure, right by the side of the road or in a parking area because they are lazy slobs. If we had a dumpster for cleaning up the Yacolt Burn State Forest, I hope it would be located next to a populated site [e.g., Larch Mtn Corrections Center, or wherever Steve Rhodes goes to work].

 

[ZigZagZeke]

I just received an email from a forester in Tillamook State Forest (we are working on the idea of placing dumpsters in the forest). What he wrote is very disturbing. Our problem is growing. Bigger than the simple everyday milk jugs, paper targets, propane bottles and TV trash we typically see. The problem is the kind of shooters who are doing this.

"...Ultimately, I would really like to figure out a way to motivate target shooters to use legal responsible targets and to pack out their own trash and targets. It is very disheartening to drive by all the places where people shoot and see all of the target shooting trash left. It is becoming more and more visible as the use continues to increase and spread out. It is difficult to understand why people think it is OK to bring garbage out to the forest to shoot and then to just leave it after their done shooting at it. In the last three weeks, from just a handful of target shooting locations, I have hauled out a full size refrigerator, 6 tires, several computers, 5 gallon buckets, paint cans, fuel and propane tanks and canisters, several pallets and chunks of plywood, quartz countertop material, carpet, several pots and pans, hubcaps, car battery, stuffed animals, parts of a sink, and the standard bottles, cardboard, cans, and paper targets. This week I found a utility trailer that was hauled into one of the Salmonberry Road shooting sites and used as a target. We need to figure out a way to dispose of it."

This happened within the recent 3 weeks in just one forest and within a fairly close proximity of that part of the forest. It's getting out of hand. These kind of people are ruining our privilege to shoot on public land!

This reflects real bad on all 'gun owners'. It pisses me off to think that these few irresponsible low-life jerks are destroying the value of our 2nd Amendment and the heritage, we value so dearly, of free public land recreational shooting.

It doesn't matter if you shoot at a private range, public range or public land. It's the fact that some people are actually destroying the integrity of people who own guns. It hurts us all. We all need to step up to the challenge and find solutions to this problem.

Our dumpster in the woods is one idea. The rules/ethics brochure is another one. The improved shooting lanes is another. So is the promotions of being a good steward. Still, this crap goes on.

We gotta put a stop to this crap before we loose it all! It's going to take a lot of people, a lot of ideas and a lot of boots on the ground to make a difference.

Bill

From his description it's pretty obvious that some of this is just trash dumping and doesn't really involve target shooting, except that some of what is dumped may be used as targets by others later.

I don't have any solutions to this problem except increased monitoring, which I know the USFS doesn't have the funds for. Tax cuts aren't free. The money has to come from somewhere, and the trees don't have any representation in Congress, so guess where the budget gets trimmed.

 

[Hayshaker]

The problem is ~~ people will NOT PICKUP THEIR TRASH EVEN WITH A DUMPSTER THERE. MOST PEOPLE ARE SLOBS. SPEAKING AS A FORMER CAMP HOST FOR THREE YEARS.

 

[Goosebrown]

Set up a couple game cams. One for faces one for plates.

 

[Capn Jack]

Nail the Ba$$ Turds.

 

[BillGabby1]

if game wardens can hide out in the dunes and ticket a dad for helping his young child dig a clam, they should be able to hide out in some of the more active shooting spots and bust these jack holes for littering. They could even raise the fine for dumping to make it worthwhile.

The problem with what you are suggesting is that Game Wardens, Police Game Violations, not littering the forest. If it actually is National Forest Land then the Forest Rangers are in charge, and they are spread pretty thinly over hundreds of thousands of acres. It would take a small army to hit just those places where trash is dumped by shooters. Then you have to take into consideration BLM land and it is under the DOI I believe, another agency at any rate, then lastly is the private property that gets trashed as well. That would be local law enforcement, and here in Josephine County, they have just enough deputies to handle the worst violations.
What would be a better thing would be a hotline to report these dirt bags to.
One of the places where my friend and I shoot out near the Kerby Transfer station has trash including mail with names and addresses. Maybe someone a whole lot smarter than I am with real people skills ( I'm a curmudgeon and don't relate to jerks very well) could contact the right people and set up a way to report this kind of crap. After all I do believe the laws are already on the books against dumping and littering.
Bag these SOB's fine the crap out of them and make them clean it all up.
If that happened I'm pretty sure the word would soon get out that it's cheaper to use the transfer stations in the first place!
Another thing that could be used is prisoners in the county jails, give the prisoners some good time off toward their release for doing the work. Chain gangs actually work! Of course some goody two shoes probable got a law passed against prison labor!
But I hope not.
I'd gladly cruise around now and then taking photos of the trash and anything identifiable as to the ownership as in mail, and call it in to someone who can take the proper action.
Which isn't me, I'm 75 and not in the best of health and I might not survive a physical encounter with some young tough. I CHL but not to throw my weight around.
I'm also Ex Law enforcement and know my limitations, Dirty Harry knew what he was talking about!
Gabby

 

[BillGabby1]

Nah, I am literally talking about paying a handful of people to man stations that access the shooting pits,


Unfortunately you can't fix stupid and immoral behavior in a legal way that would stop this POS's, getting them on camera and imposing jail time and big fines would be effective though

Again you are talking about a large force to do this, a hand full won't even start to scratch the surface, the problem is too wide spread and good luck getting a budget to operate them on. Look how hard it was to get a levy in Josephine County to fund the Sheriff's department and the jail. They still aren't up to full force.
An all volunteer force is required to gather the information, to then turn over to the proper agency. That is what they are there for anyway! BTW if you decide to do this don't travel alone, we may find you someday,,,,,maybe!
I don't wish to stir the pot, Pun Intended, but we now have a whole new class of people moving into Oregon.
I'm talking about those who are in the business of growing the weed.
The area around Cave Junction has exploded with new people, the market and the lumber yard are packed every day with some rough looking people and I know most are armed because of their competitors, they don't want their crops vandalized, much the way the old moonshiners used to do, they would shoot holes in each others stills so that their batches were lost, meaning the buyers would come to them for their product rather than the shot up competitor. I'll give you an example.
I live just about 1.5 miles from Redwood HWY, from my driveway is 1 mile of paved road to the HWY, and along that mile there are at least by last count, 26 grows, all fenced up creating an eyesore. At least once and often more, nights per week there is gunfire at all hours, some even sound like full auto, of various calibers. They even do this in the daytime.
At times it sounds like a war zone.
I'm sure these same shooters look for remote places to practice, and I wouldn't wish to tick them off as I doubt they are upstanding citizens who care about the law, or the landscape. So my point is be careful out there people, the wild west is returning.
Gabby

 

[BillGabby1]

Here it is, @Koda . Your idea of a 1 page, Black & White, 8 1/2 x 11 flier! Rules & Gear Checklist.

Let me know what you think. If I need to edit it, I'll remove this link and replace it with the new one.

You don't have to have a Drop Box account to download and print, just close out that popup.

Dropbox - Public Land Shooting Rules 1 Pg Flier Drop Box.pdf

This is free to all and I encourage you to print as many as you can and get them into your favorite gun & outdoor stores. Carry a few copies with you to hand out to shooters you meet in the woods.

It doesn't matter where you live because this flier is applicable to all public lands.

Bill

I've tried to open this link but it isn't working.
Gabby

 

[tac]

Gabby

Hey, are you the BillGabby1 that writes on muzzleloadingforum.com?

If so, I'm happy to meet you here! x 10

tac, also on muzzleloadingforum.com

 

[tac]

o.

I was up late, OK?

tac

 

[Cogs]

I've tried to open this link but it isn't working.
Gabby

I know. I didn't like it so I took it off of Drop Box.

 

[Cogs]

Here's another way to inform about the rules. Since people like videos, I put this together as a teaching tool. Trying multiple things to raise awareness and this is another way.

 

[Cogs]

And a few scare tactics...

When you shoot on public land, you can choose to be legal or illegal. How do you want your day to end?

​

 

[Garg]

Honestly, I don't really know if it would help or not but maybe a small booklet that can show some of the damage, and a quick how to guide to "Not be that guy/gal" that could be distributed to gun retailers, and handed out with any new gun purchase.
Maybe the message will get across to the newer shooters who previously had no idea how damaging these things can be, for us, AND them.
I can't imagine any gun retailer would be against it, something like a "Shooting in public lands for DUMMIES" type thing.

 

[Cogs]

Honestly, I don't really know if it would help or not but maybe a small booklet that can show some of the damage, and a quick how to guide to "Not be that guy/gal" that could be distributed to gun retailers, and handed out with any new gun purchase.
Maybe the message will get across to the newer shooters who previously had no idea how damaging these things can be, for us, AND them.
I can't imagine any gun retailer would be against it, something like a "Shooting in public lands for DUMMIES" type thing.

I do a Tri-fold brochure and distribute to gun & outdoor stores, but haven't thought of the book idea yet. Kind of thought it'd be too much and may not get read.

Hoping to get more funds to restock stores. There's a lot of stores around the Metro area of Portland that are happy to stock this! (You are welcome to download and print. 2 sided glossy is best.)
Dropbox - TNL Shooting brochure.pdf

 

[Garg]

That is great Cogs, but maybe if the (retailers) could be a little more proactive, and hand it out to the customer directly, and say "Please read this, it's important to you, and others" type thing... I don't know...

Most people I know WANT to be responsible shooters, but I find myself even needing to gently remind people what is not okay...