More Target Shooting Trouble in the forest...

[Cogs]

What is your website and Facebook page ?

Trash No Land Home
&
facebook.com/trashnoland/

 

[CoastRange57]

Nice page. Liked the Facebook page.

 

[Cogs]

Here it is, @Koda . Your idea of a 1 page, Black & White, 8 1/2 x 11 flier! Rules & Gear Checklist.

Let me know what you think. If I need to edit it, I'll remove this link and replace it with the new one.

You don't have to have a Drop Box account to download and print, just close out that popup.

Dropbox - Public Land Shooting Rules 1 Pg Flier Drop Box.pdf

This is free to all and I encourage you to print as many as you can and get them into your favorite gun & outdoor stores. Carry a few copies with you to hand out to shooters you meet in the woods.

It doesn't matter where you live because this flier is applicable to all public lands.

Bill

 

[Cogs]

Kind of dry looking. Not much bling to it. Might be best to use color paper, something like a light blue or light yellow. Would make it a little more eye catching.

 

[DirectDrive]

Kind of dry looking. Not much bling to it. Might be best to use color paper, something like a light blue or light yellow. Would make it a little more eye catching.

Could also do a double-sided print job with a target on the backside along with info on how to help with cleanups.

 

[Cogs]

Trying to keep it simple, now. Some may not want to print if it's double sided. And I'd hate to see it left on trees throughout the forest! Ha!

 

[Koda]

Here it is, @Koda . Your idea of a 1 page, Black & White, 8 1/2 x 11 flier! Rules & Gear Checklist.

Let me know what you think. If I need to edit it, I'll remove this link and replace it with the new one.

You don't have to have a Drop Box account to download and print, just close out that popup.

Dropbox - Public Land Shooting Rules 1 Pg Flier Drop Box.pdf

This is free to all and I encourage you to print as many as you can and get them into your favorite gun & outdoor stores. Carry a few copies with you to hand out to shooters you meet in the woods.

It doesn't matter where you live because this flier is applicable to all public lands.

Bill

shazam, this is perfect Cogs....
dont remove the TLN link, that should always be included. (I wouldn't do 2 sided either...)


now just for the record I wouldnt throw out your 2 sides color brochures... keep those for in person events etc. But the simple black and white flyers will reach out to more people.

 

[Cosmic Osmo]

For the back of the flier, maybe some instructions for building a PVC/furring strip target stand? Pretty much everyone I run into at North Fork Wolf Creek asks questions about mine when I start to unpack it.

 

[Cogs]

I like that idea of printing plans for building the stand, however, would rather do it on a separate flier.

Good thoughts!

 

[Cogs]

Good ideas Coast! Will give it serious concideration. Thank you for that input.

 

[oneday1]

Hey Cogs....you rock!
Seriously, thank you for all that you are doing!
I'm registering as a volunteer.

 

[Cogs]

Hey Cogs....you rock!
Seriously, thank you for all that you are doing!
I'm registering as a volunteer.

Right on, onday1!

 

[jsparks747]

@Cogs this may seem out there but would it be worth it to contact the NRA or OHA (hunter's association). Both of those groups have members who take advantage of public ranges and you may be able to get in contact with members in the PNW. You could also expand throughout the country and do similar to BHA where there are 3 or 4 state groups that are managed by individuals of the shooting community and can help set up cleanups and raise funds.

 

[Koda]

Paying for permits to use the land that you have already paid taxes on to maintain for decades ?

this is worth repeating... I agree with ob1 on this.

Voluntary courtesy visits to pass out flyer's and visit local shooters is a great idea and I'm all for it.
Trying to turn public land into a pseudo "country club" available for those who are willing to pay fee's and submit to dubious authority is another thing.

If we bring the state in on this its over, it opens the door for a bunch of anti-gunners to weigh in on the decision process. This needs to be a pro gun grass roots operation and the only way is volunteering. SOLVE does it, various hiking groups do it... MX, 4x4, Snomo, Equestrians organizations do it... all maintain their trails or cause by volunteer efforts and funding. I know the odds are stacked up against us but my vote is against requiring a permit to target shoot on public lands.

 

[Cogs]

If the flyer has some color in it it will be memory retained much longer. Pick two or three colors that you want to be indentified with and adopt those as your official colors that you will use in your marketing activities.

I would suggest green and black and a tan, they contrast well on white. I would suggest looking at changing the color of your circle in the logo to green or tan. Red is an attention color yes, but is is also an anger color. Green and tan are earth tones and send a message of oneness with the earth.

The listings of the equipment and gear are good and should be included. Some pictures of them would be even better,and pictures of people actively picking up trash and debris will make a better connection that just verbiage. Pull the .org away from the logo and set up the web address under the logo. Set up the pictures in a stagger pattern on the page.

Insert a " Find us on Facebook " logo to make a solid social media connection and to gain followers. I will try and put together an example and post it or send it to you. Changing that circle color on your logo would be a huge thing in my opinion.

This flier is designed to be Black & White for easy printing for multiple users free of charge. The color will have to come with the user choice of color paper to print on. If I add color to this one, along with more photos and more 'bling', it will need to be a larger and more involved printing endeavor than the idea was originally supposed to be. I already have a brochure like that, full color two sided with pics, about target shooting on public land... Shooting Brochure

Sorry, but I'm not changing the logo colors. The Red & White colors are consistent with the 'universal NO sign' and that's how I designed it to be. NO trash on public land. NO ruining our shooting privilege. I started Trash No Land with these colors and this logo design, which is my own and unique design, from the beginning and have been consistent with it ever since (even with the backwards slash).

I don't care to be 'one with the earth', I only care about alerting shooters to the concerns for public land recreational shooting. And yes, we should get 'angry' about the trash at shooting sites. Thus, the Red color.

I also think the .org, under the logo, gives the idea that it is our website name & address. I like it and I don't think anyone will have a problem not understanding that the address is trashnoland.org.

Once they visit the website, they'll see the link to the FB page. I'm sure I'll put the FB logo on future publications but on this flier, what we have here is just fine.

I like your input and ideas, Coast, however, I'm not changing this flier, or the logo, or the colors. Still, I'll keep these recommendations in mind, because things change and so does my mind (from time to time).

Thanks man!

 

[Cogs]

Here is a flyer I put together quickly tonight. Before I get into this, marketing pieces can be designed for specific purposes and intents. For a handout piece that you somebody to hang onto and refer to later, nothing beats a tri fold brochure. You put these together on a 8 x 11 piece, landscape format. You can get a lot of information on them, they fit easily in a shirt pocket or jeans back pocket and are easier handled than a 8 x 11 flyer.

I took some of your information and pictures and put them in it. As a hand out I took out the words "rules" do not" and anything else that might project some kind of regulatory and official " rules or laws" meaning. Although we would expect people to have common sense, you are trying to get people to buy into your idea and ethics and projecting a we want to help you enjoy your outing more is a bit more friendly when we avoid any kind of negative implications.

When I loaded this the background was supposed to be a light tan, seems too pink really.

View attachment 389500

It sure is a 'make you feel good' idea, however, not for me or my organization. I want the words 'rules' and 'laws' and 'do not' in them. They are 'regulatory and official' rules and laws, as written and should be read. I believe these are important to our message and they need to be there (perhaps even stronger than I have them presented).

You should have made this a private conversation before sending it out on social media (and perhaps gotten the full story from the website and Facebook page, such as being a bit more friendly and avoiding any kind of negative implications). It is not a publication from Trash No Land and should not be made public without my stamp of approval.

Good idea, however. And certainly one I will consider. But for now, what we have with the current tri-fold color brochure and the new B&W flier, we're good to go.

Thanks Coast!

 

[Cogs]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's good to hear all opinions to a topic like this.

I may have missed where these thoughts came from in this thread...

Range Safety Officers ?

People don't go out to put up with some wannabe range officer. Sorry, I had to endure the range officer mentality for years, but I was paid to do so. If some of you guys have a burning desire to enforce range "etiquette" on someone else, go to one of the private gun clubs in the area, they might even give you whistle. Try it with me on public land and you'll learn about a new place to put that whistle.

As I recall, the idea of an RSO was only for a class we'd like to see about common public land shooting etiquette. Nothing about going out to play RSO at shooting sites.

Paying for permits to use the land that you have already paid taxes on to maintain for decades ?

A mandatory trash / work quota to throw others trash in a dumpster ?
I have done my bit in the past in cleaning up shooting areas { the 36 pit comes to mind } but, I'll be damned if I'll be a party to a "minimum" work load quota as proscribed by what someone thinks is appropriate.

Our tax dollars are not going towards recreational shooting, yet we still pay them. Our dollars may help develop other kinds of recreation but not for our kind.

Where did the mandatory trash/work quota come from? Cleanups are voluntary. While that would be a good idea for a penalty for breaking the law, we are not suggesting anything close to making that mandatory.

Perhaps these "new wave" public shooting areas could be called the Michael Bloomberg peoples mandatory firearms indoctrination compounds. I am sure Kate could come up with the money for the signs.

New wave? No, we're trying to make things better by restoring credibility for gun owners, respect in recreational shooting and responsibility in public land use. We are not looking to make anything mandatory outside of keeping it open and respectful. Again, don't know how you got that idea.

Again, thanks for the feedback.

 

[Koda]

Our tax dollars are not going towards recreational shooting, yet we still pay them. Our dollars may help develop other kinds of recreation but not for our kind.

Its worth noting that on federal public lands there is a federal law regulating target shooting on public land (basically the same rules were already aware of on state lands) and recreational target shooting, on public lands, has long been recognised by our National forests (MHNF etc., again federal) as an appropriate use of public lands. Also, this isnt just at developed shooting lanes or official public lanes but dispersed target shooting.

 

[Member 34319]

Count me out !

Some of the ideas I have read in this thread seem to have promise,
but my god....

Range Safety Officers ?

Paying for permits to use the land that you have already paid taxes on to maintain for decades ?

A mandatory trash / work quota to throw others trash in a dumpster ?
I have done my bit in the past in cleaning up shooting areas { the 36 pit comes to mind } but, I'll be damned if I'll be a party to a "minimum" work load quota as proscribed by what someone thinks is appropriate.

Why do people use public land to shoot ? To get away from a lot of what is being proposed here ? It's like living in your home for years and then someone comes in and requires you to join an HOA ! Once you kill the enjoyment, you loose a big slice of the shooting public.

People don't go out to put up with some wannabe range officer. Sorry, I had to endure the range officer mentality for years, but I was paid to do so. If some of you guys have a burning desire to enforce range "etiquette" on someone else, go to one of the private gun clubs in the area, they might even give you whistle. Try it with me on public land and you'll learn about a new place to put that whistle.

Do you really think we would have any power to oversee the spending of government collected permit revenues. Good luck with that. Once you give the beast more authority by collecting revenue on us, you have opened Pandora's box. This is a slippery slope that some of you guys are playing with here.

Voluntary courtesy visits to pass out flyer's and visit local shooters is a great idea and I'm all for it.
Trying to turn public land into a pseudo "country club" available for those who are willing to pay fee's and submit to dubious authority is another thing. There are precious few accessible areas left, compared to the way it was in the past. Some of these ideas would ruin shooting for many everywhere in the state. Just who are we trying to serve ?

Sorry for the attitude gentlemen, but this is disturbing. It makes me think of some of the crap Tac describes back home. I am sure that I wouldn't be alone in this feeling. Going out to enjoy shooting in the woods without being assaulted with outside BS is one of the most valued freedoms I have left. If half of these proposals were to come to fruition, the enjoyment would be gone.
Just one thing, if these ideas materialize, please find a way to exempt the "36" pit. I would rather take my chances with the meth-heads than frequent the alternative proposed here. They're not so bad, give em a few bucks and they'll pick up brass for you.

Perhaps these "new wave" public shooting areas could be called the Michael Bloomberg peoples mandatory firearms indoctrination compounds. I am sure Kate could come up with the money for the signs.

Your definitely not alone in "this" feeling.

There are plenty that think this way.

Call my thinking "new wave", but realize something. The "old wave" thinking that sitting around and waiting for the "current" paid taxes to fix a new problem is (in my opinion) the backwards thinking.

That's like saying my one 1oz bottle of hopps I "paid" for to clean the one gun I owned and used 16 years ago should now be able to clean my whole collection. Nope, more guns need more hopps.

This, honestly is nothing more than what I stated earlier. Lack of trust for the government and willingness to change.

@ob1 can you honestly say that this government you don't trust that receives the same, if not less, dollars from our taxes is going to keep the woods open to a growing number of shooters vs doing the easier thing and just closing it down?

It's ok to disagree, I just hope you see the value in getting involved.

If not no worries we appreciate the difference in opinion.

 

[RVTECH]

Count me out !
Some of the ideas I have read in this thread seem to have promise,
but my god....

I too believe the ideas have some merit however - if I were an 'outsider' looking in (instead of a forum member who understands what is attempting to be accomplished) I would probably somewhat be put on the defensive. Part of it would be my 'time in grade' in that I have been shooting in the NF for 40 + years and my arrogance would 'kick in' and tell me 'I have been doing this for a long time and don't need anyone to tell me what to do it or charge me a fee to do it' (and right or wrong, good or bad this will be a common attitude)

The cynical side of me would immediately think 'Special Interest Group' because quite frankly most of what I have read with regard to the ideas, plans, projects and the involvement of the Forest Service seems to follow similar evolutionary paths of liberal/environmental special interests we have all come to know (and sometimes hate) over the years.

I would think the name of the organization should immediately establish it is a pro-shooting organization. With all due respect Trash No Land suggests an environmental cause instead of something sporting or recreational. Maybe 'No Polluter Shooters' or 'EnviroGuns' - Ok you get my point.

The bottom line is you will need to convince a LOT of people this is working for their interest and not against it. People get turned off to anything when they start seeing words like 'permit', 'cost', 'rules and regulations', 'maintenance', 'seminar' or 'class' - especially when it is directed toward something they may have been doing for decades free of charge and with little regulation - and especially if they ARE responsible and clean and KNOW they are not a part of the element that are causing the problems.

Lastly I was wondering what this part meant from post # 88?

And we get money from it.