More Target Shooting Trouble in the forest...

Discussion in 'Outdoor Shooting Areas' started by Cogs, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. Hayshaker

    Hayshaker
    Irrigon
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    THey would jjust steal or shoot trhem up also
     
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  2. Rem700..300

    Rem700..300
    Albany Oregon
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    We were up running around Mary's peak this weekend looking for elk. I noticed that 2 of the shooting areas that really don't have good back stops, but are the ones that were really trashed have formal waxed cardboard signs attached in clear site that this is an unsafe shooting area. Didn't actually say not shooting though. Didn't get pictures and not sure who put them there. They didn't have any government markings on them that I could see. Went and checked the 3rd area that we normally clean and a newer tan tahoe was there shooting. Got the "Get the blank blank out of here look when I pulled in to see how trashed it was. It was bad. I sent a few emails out to see who put the signs up.
    What I noticed when deer hunting was that the Mary's Peak area in mainly the shooting areas looks like the local dump, where everything else for the most part looks fine. Even 15 miles as the crow flies is a lot of State property and it is clean as a whistle. Not sure what it is about those sites. Anyway going to try and clean them up next week while elk hunting. Also going to try and get back to being more involved in this process and helping more. Honey do list is getting small and she wants to help also. Plus hunting season is over for me.
     
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  3. Diamondback

    Diamondback
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    Maybe the answer is to pay for improving one or two sites, close the rest and set up a fee-for-permit program with volunteer rangemasters, maybe something like for 3 month's volunteering 2 days a month you get a month's range-card.

    More cost and more labor intensive, but some people don't do "structure and rules" until they're FORCED to--like a prison term.
     
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  4. Diamondback

    Diamondback
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    Addendum to prior, range-card fees would be primarily dedicated for maintenance and upkeep of facilities, and whatever professional personnel (like added security) and other expenses are required for operations. Maybe put a gate in with a cardreader lock where you have to swipe your range card or a separate vehicle pass to get in, and it logs who comes and goes so if somebody with a card blows it they can narrow down who.
     
  5. Cogs

    Cogs
    Washougal, WA.
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    Ahhh, but then, aren't we defeating the purpose of free recreational shooting on public land? It would be a huge undertaking by a private organization, much less the forest agency, to set up and regulate that kind of a range. And we all would loose the privilege of free recreation if they restricted our activity to designated place with fees. Then there's the fact that it requires more government regulations and rules. Do we want that?

    Nah. Not for me.
     
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  6. Diamondback

    Diamondback
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    Not my preferred choice either, amigo... the underlying problem we're dealing with is, people tend to not care about things they don't have to pay for. :(

    The alternate is a massive boost in the Enforcement budget to put more rangers on patrol... which has to be paid for somehow.
     
  7. Cogs

    Cogs
    Washougal, WA.
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    I noticed we think alike. I've often thought of that idea of having a public range with fees to cover expenses and so forth, however, I keep coming back to the same thing... It wouldn't be free any more and we would be heavily regulated.

    I definitely agree with the need for more law enforcement! One way to help pay for that could be in the idea of charging a fee for a shooting permit. Additional funding could come from citations given for violations.

    The fee for a shooting permit is not a very popular idea with shooters, at this point. Of course, neither was the fee for recreational Off Highway Vehicles operators! But at least they get to see some benefits from their permits.
     
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  8. Rem700..300

    Rem700..300
    Albany Oregon
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    The shooting permit idea is a good one with the fees going towards law enforcement. I know L.E. is spread super thin up there.
    Sad part is with the way some people are now days you dont really even want to say anything because who knows what they will do.
     
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  9. Diamondback

    Diamondback
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    You get a Like because there's no "Agree" button. :(

    People are stupid, unpredictable and dangerous--the very reason many of us CCW.
     
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  10. BillGabby1

    BillGabby1
    SW Oregon,from, AZ
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    Sorry TAC that HAS to be an imposter :rolleyes:
    I'm not a member there as yet, it looks like a great forum from what little I could see as a guest. BillGabby1 is the name I had to use here as there already is a Gabby and a Gabby Bill, listed. That is my preferred handle. As is my avatar, a photo of George "Gabby" Hayes, a cowboy actor from the 1930's and into the '50's. Usually as side kick to Roy Rogers.
     
  11. BillGabby1

    BillGabby1
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    My question is who is going to bother to watch your video?
    I suspect it will be those who are already conscientious
    enough to to take care of our forests.
    The people who trash those places couldn't care less!
     
  12. BillGabby1

    BillGabby1
    SW Oregon,from, AZ
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    As in gun control there are already enough laws on the books to have you snoring for the next 1000 years. Such great reading as all laws are. :rolleyes:
    We all agree I think that we don't have enough people to enforce the laws already on the books. This applies to littering as well as any other activity you care to mention.
    As far as the actual abuse of our forests, I believe we have to be more active in getting the information to the proper entities and then follow up, by determining whether or not any action was taken and the results whether case closed by arrest or closed because no one took the time to follow up, and why not? I'm sure they will plead full case loads, and not enough people to handle the load, so we need to find out what can be done to lighten their loads as we know already they aren't getting the funds to expand their work forces.
    So lets hear some good LEGAL suggestions to help fix this problem.
    We should ALL of us know that anything we might do in the field with people who could care less can be dangerous to your health.
    They DO have loaded firearms after all, and can be counted on to do stupid things.
    Education can only go as far as someone wanting that education, or it being forced upon them.
    You nor I cannot force anything upon them LEGALLY, so forget that.
    I'm waiting with bated breath to hear from someone a whole lot smarter than the average bear, to come up with the answers!
    Gabby the dumb bear.
     
  13. BillGabby1

    BillGabby1
    SW Oregon,from, AZ
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    You are both off track, the places that end up looking like dumps (because they are)
    are out in the forest in the first place, and not regulated shooting ranges. Just a free to the public, good safe, I hope, place to shoot that has been turned into a dumping ground by people who don't give a ---t about anything!
    Gabby
     
  14. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist
    Oregon
    AK's all day.

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    Sadly, I must agree.. tons of SOBS are out there and when no one is looking they show their true character by leaving trash behind.
     
  15. Diamondback

    Diamondback
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    I don't think there really is a good answer.

    --Enhanced LE presence has to be paid for somehow, and nobody wants to.
    --Enhanced monitoring requires expensive hardware investment, and either regular replacement when (as we know they will) some knucklehead in need of nutkick.gif shoots the cams or expensive skilled labor to place in covert locations.

    As much as I generally hate the idea, perhaps Asset Forfeiture-funded LE might have a place on this one. Trash forest land, lose the vehicle you hauled the crap out there in and everything in it...
     
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  16. Cogs

    Cogs
    Washougal, WA.
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    I will continue to seek solutions. It has been evident, for years now, there is no great 'one' solution to resolve the problems attached to recreational shooting. Therefore, it takes a multitude of efforts to cause an effect. That includes distributing the rules in various media forms, conducting volunteer cleanups, partnering with forest agencies and law enforcement, using social media, promoting and assisting in shooting lane improvements on public land, attending recreational committee meetings, patrolling/observing/reporting conditions and usage, and communicating to the choir.

    I am always entertaining various ideas and give all ideas serious thought. If they don't reason out well, then they are put on the back burner or thrown out completely. Other, good, ideas may have potential and are worth discussing in depth. And some ideas get off track in left field where it seems ridiculous to even be discussing them. Either way, we won't find answers by not exploring ideas and certainly won't find them by complaining about conditions.

    As the choir, we cannot simply sit back, complain and say "they otta do this and that". We need to be saying "We are doing this and that!" And through this organization I started, Trash No Land, we are doing this and that. We started it with NWFA and I'm expanding it to include all gun organizations and individuals who value the privilege of free public land shooting.

    So I will stay focused on the critical goal of improving recreational shooting on public land and move ahead for the cause.

    Thanks for all your input and help!
     
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  17. Diamondback

    Diamondback
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    The other thing we can do... stakeout and surveil, and post perps' faces and vehicles on social media with some hashtag like #Litterbug. Name-n-Shame public humiliation of offenders can be an effective weapon... I know of several LE agencies who had their prossie busts go way down when they started releasing arrested johns' names and mugs to local media in their jurisdictions. (Of course such approaches have to fit the population... for example, Prossie Publicization works well in a town of Bible Bangin' Bluenoses, not so much in San Fransh*tto.)
     
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  18. moose

    moose
    northwet coast
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    Your first point is crap. Money gets spent on the bureaucrat's pet projects, not yours. At the very most, a squeaky wheel might be greased for a short time.

    Asset forfeiture is legalized theft, piracy with a badge, a letter of marque from the king. Fine all they want, and fine everyone equally but just taking your stuff ain't right AND YOU NEED NOT BE CONVICTED for it to happen.
     
  19. mkwerx

    mkwerx
    Rock Creek
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    Did not wade thru 10 pages... Clackamas County SO has a couple full time deps detailed to forest patrols specifically targeting illegal dumping - I have run into them while out shooting before. They are paid entirely by grant money - don't see why WCSO could not do the same.

    Its an uphill battle for sure. I do not support closing the public lands to free, unencumbered target shooting. I do support targetted enforcement and nailing the litering bastards to the wall.
     
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  20. bsa1917hunter

    bsa1917hunter
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    AMEN!!!
     
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