Man confusing tactical officers with intruders gets shot

[bikejunkie]

^ I disagree- I'd rather set up at a choke point and ambush them- that's how they taught it in the Marines, and it has served us pretty well over the years. The likelihood of being overrun by punks in 30 minutes if you are properly holed up while you wait for the police is slim IMO- rather than trying to hunt down an unknown number of assailants at unknown locations around your property, out in the open, in the dark...That's just me I guess

 

[SteelyDan]

The urge to hunker down in a safe place will get you killed every time in a fire fight. The deciding factors in a fire fight are which side knows where the others are, and who is more mobile. Once you hunker down and your location is identified, you will be flanked and eventually overwhelmed. The deer stand idea sounds great, but remember that the deer aren’t armed and trying to come after you.

Who knows your rural property better than you do in the dark? Who knows what’s normal and what’s out of place? Who knows where the dogs are, where the potholes are, and where the electric fence is? Who knows the fields of fire from each location, and which locations offer good cover? As the resident you have a tremendous advantage outside where you can move around.

I agree completely. Those who would stay inside the house while waiting for attackers to breach their perimeter are inviting trouble, IMHO. I would rather engage them in the driveway or yard to stop them before they enter. Of course, that's just me and much depends on the lay of the land, etc. In my case, I would never want to risk bullets flying in the house where my family is. I feel I have the tactical advantage outside my house if the need arose.

 

[Asp]

I don't know about that theory. For example, I live in an extremely rural area where gunshots are not uncommon and police response is 20-30 mins away at best. If I hear suspicous noises outside I am not going to wait for them to cross my threshold and have a gunbattle in the house with the family around. I am going to secure the family and go outside to investigate....a "bring the fight to them" tactic.

This same thing happened in Spokane a few years ago.
<broken link removed>

The guy was a wonderful Pastor and man from what I could gather from his sermons and talking with him briefly. I was a coerced-visitor*

*Grandparents made me go to Church if I stayed in their house.

 

[ArBrnSnpr]

^ I disagree- I'd rather set up at a choke point and ambush them- that's how they taught it in the Marines, and it has served us pretty well over the years. The likelihood of being overrun by punks in 30 minutes if you are properly holed up while you wait for the police is slim IMO- rather than trying to hunt down an unknown number of assailants at unknown locations around your property, out in the open, in the dark...That's just me I guess

In the battle drill (ambush) you refer to that the Army/Marines use - an ambush is never to be executed unless the element of suprise is on your side, and you have 3 to 1 odds against your opposing enemy force. An ambush also requires support-by-fire to be executed properly, and an assault team to clear the objective and push to the LOA. So, if you are planning to this by yourself and follow the doctrine you were taught in the Marines - with 3 to 1 odds you can effectively ambush no one. Besides, how would one go about setting up a choke point while intruders are roaming around your property - move some vehicles around? push a chair in front of a door? Say "hey guys I'm over here?" There is no proper battel drill for a "you alone vs unknown number of possibly hostile intruders" situation which leaves your choices at sit and defend, or go and hunt. The laws tends to favour the choice were traps weren't set...

And as far as ambushes serving the Marines pretty well - maybe in Vietnam, but they're being used about as often as trench clearing drills are in our current wars. I can attest to whole lot of movement to contact, react to indirect/direct fire, patrolling, and reconasance though.

 

[bikejunkie]

I'm referring to laying in wait at the top of my staircase and drilling anyone that tries to come up while waiting for the cops. I agree though- pre ranged artillery would be nice- though a bit hard on the lawn...

 

[james2562]

It sounded like he lives in an apartment. If that was the case there was no tresspass.

an hopefully he lives to press charges and sue the living bubblegume out of the trespassers who shot him.

 

[Hawkeye5829]

The urge to hunker down in a safe place will get you killed every time in a fire fight. The deciding factors in a fire fight are which side knows where the others are, and who is more mobile. Once you hunker down and your location is identified, you will be flanked and eventually overwhelmed. The deer stand idea sounds great, but remember that the deer aren’t armed and trying to come after you.

Who knows your rural property better than you do in the dark? Who knows what’s normal and what’s out of place? Who knows where the dogs are, where the potholes are, and where the electric fence is? Who knows the fields of fire from each location, and which locations offer good cover? As the resident you have a tremendous advantage outside where you can move around.[/QUOTE}

I still think I would be loathe to leave my family alone in the house. Unless we get attacked by a platoon of trained soldiers...which I am F'd anyways if that happens, I think my chances are better in the house than wandering around the property looking for BG's, and leaving my family alone in the house. I would secure my family in the house and call the police and wait. If they came in the house thay can talk to my Ithaca 12 gauge pump and my Ruger mini 14.

 

[bikejunkie]

I'm not willing to take a life over someone trying to jack my car stereo or lawnmower- the legal ramifications of it are simply too high. I'll kill without hesitation to protect my life or my families, but not over property- that's what insurance is for

 

[Scott]

I'm not willing to take a life over someone trying to jack my car stereo or lawnmower- the legal ramifications of it are simply too high. I'll kill without hesitation to protect my life or my families, but not over property- that's what insurance is for

I will not standby and watch someone stealing my boat, truck, tools or whatever. If they decide to attack they will get their *** whooped or worse.

I worked to hard to get what I have and will not allow some crackhead to steal what I have.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[SteelyDan]

I'm not willing to take a life over someone trying to jack my car stereo or lawnmower- the legal ramifications of it are simply too high. I'll kill without hesitation to protect my life or my families, but not over property- that's what insurance is for

We aren't necessarily talking about shooting someone who is stealing a car stereo. At the time that you hear somebody inside your perimeter, you don't know their intentions. Maybe they are stealing your lawn mower or maybe they are planning a home invasion?!

I wouldn't shoot somebody over a stereo or lawnmower but I would hold them at gunpoint for the police and if they made any threatening moves I would use whatever force necessary to control them and protect myself.

 

[ArBrnSnpr]

We aren't necessarily talking about shooting someone who is stealing a car stereo. At the time that you hear somebody inside your perimeter, you don't know their intentions. Maybe they are stealing your lawn mower or maybe they are planning a home invasion?!

I wouldn't shoot somebody over a stereo or lawnmower but I would hold them at gunpoint for the police and if they made any threatening moves I would use whatever force necessary to control them and protect myself.

I agree 100%! This country is moving in the wrong direction when a person will quantify what measures they are willing to take to defend against an intrusion based on the value of the item they suspect is being stollen. I am personally defending against my right to privacy, my safety and my freedom to defend my familiy in that situation. If an intruder chose to violate those rights over a car stereo than they made a high risk/low reward decission. I did not make their choices for them, but I will not sit back and let them have my property and shrug my shoulders and say "that's what insurance is for."

I firmly believe if a person enters my house against my will at any time other than when normal people would be at work, then that persona is aware that there might be someone in my house and is still willing to enter - meaning, they are accepting the risk that they might have to confront me. Only a person willing to harm me or my family would make that choice, so if they made that choice for my DVD player, or my Grandfather's coin collection or for a thrill killing of me and my family they will be greated with the same level of resistance. They will be made aware I am armed and the police have been called. What happens next will depend on their actions. I dont advocate killing a fleeing meth-addict, or an unarmed teenager by any means. But I'm equally against hunkering down and allowing myself to be victimized because I have "insurance."

 

[SteelyDan]

I agree 100%! This country is moving in the wrong direction when a person will quantify what measures they are willing to take to defend against an intrusion based on the value of the item they suspect is being stollen. I am personally defending against my right to privacy, my safety and my freedom to defend my familiy in that situation. If an intruder chose to violate those rights over a car stereo than they made a high risk/low reward decission. I did not make their choices for them, but I will not sit back and let them have my property and shrug my shoulders and say "that's what insurance is for."

I firmly believe if a person enters my house against my will at any time other than when normal people would be at work, then that persona is aware that there might be someone in my house and is still willing to enter - meaning, they are accepting the risk that they might have to confront me. Only a person willing to harm me or my family would make that choice, so if they made that choice for my DVD player, or my Grandfather's coin collection or for a thrill killing of me and my family they will be greated with the same level of resistance. They will be made aware I am armed and the police have been called. What happens next will depend on their actions. I dont advocate killing a fleeing meth-addict, or an unarmed teenager by any means. But I'm equally against hunkering down and allowing myself to be victimized because I have "insurance."

WELL SAID!

 

[ar57]

I live in a rural area on a couple acres. Let's see, barking dogs, livestock agitated, unidentified people in dark clothing poking around outbuildings...

Yes, I'm going to investigate and probably take a handgun and big beam with me. All I know is I've got unannounced trespassers fooling around with my livestock and outbuildings. Am I supposed to cower in my basement and hope they go away?

This business of trigger happy, armored police in paramilitary gear serving warrants unannounced in the middle of the night has got to stop. It's a recipe for disaster and the police need to start being held accountable. We are not sheep and they are not sheepdogs.

+100

 

[Sabertooth]

+100

I prefer my shotgun, Double Buck loads, my eyes ain't so good.

 

[cade]

He lived in a section eight complex in a duplex, was high on and in possesion of meth, and no one was in his yard. The man was an idiot. The cops told him they were the cops and he stilled opened fire on them first. I was present during the event. When the cops have a warrant they can legally enter your property. On this occasion the cops did things the right way.

 

[bikejunkie]

^ Interesting, I wonder why none of that made the news...oh yeah I know- because the news is an abomination...

 

[nicksinclairw]

id take my gun with me to take a leak in portland anymore, those cops were illegally trespassing and the owner gets shot for investigating it with a gun on his own property? those cops are in the wrong 100% and if it was reversed and the cop seen someone in there yard,the intruder would have gotten shot

 

[Rascals]

I wonder why the news is so quiet about this. Has anybody heard any more about the whole thing?

 

[kott0n]

Its funny, one night I left my garage door up and around 10:30 a Washington County deputy knocked on my door. i did not answer and i heard banging around in my garage. At that moment i drew down on the deputy, of course we both pooped in our pants when we seen each other, i then stood down and he did too, we both understood what was going on and he apologized and to me because he was wrong. I don't care where you are, if your on private property, you should announce yourself prior to shooting someone. I am sure he would have stood down.

This x1000

ANNOUNCE your self if you step onto somenoes property, that goes for Police officers as well. Only people intent on doing HARM or are to stupid to realize they will be seen as a threat remain silent. This goes for cops also.

This happens over and over and over. Police enter private property, do not announce them selves, home owner responds, homeowner dies. What is going on here...

 

[Hook686]

Personally I suspect law enforcement officers on offical business that are approached by a person with a lethal weapon will shoot first and ask questions later. Law suit ? Some lawyer might push for it, but if I was on the jury I'd back the law enforcement officers in this one.