Magazines: Proof of date purchased.

[arakboss]

From another thread:

But really though:

"I purchased these magazines before 114 went into effect."

You don't need proof.

They need proof that you didn't.

"When a defense, declared to be an "affirmative defense" by chapter 743, Oregon Laws 1971, is raised at a trial, the defendant has the burden of proving the defense by a preponderance of the evidence."

Source: https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_161.055

 

[arakboss]

This might fall under a better safe than sorry action.

Best case is you never end up on trial.

Worst case you do and the jury doesn't like your affirmative defense proof.

Half the voters in this State voted for this nonsense. I wonder how many of those might end up on a jury?

 

[WeaponizedMRE]

"When a defense, declared to be an "affirmative defense" by chapter 743, Oregon Laws 1971, is raised at a trial, the defendant has the burden of proving the defense by a preponderance of the evidence."

Source: https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_161.055

I feel that if it got that far for me I will have a harder time explaining the 3d printed lightning links and the tannerite filled plate carrier than when my mags were purchased.

 

[Nosferatu]

This might fall under a better safe than sorry action.

Best case is you never end up on trial.

Worst case you do and the jury doesn't like your affirmative defense proof.

Half the voters in this State voted for this nonsense. I wonder how many of those might end up on a jury?

I would be absolutely flabbergasted if; A) someone gets charged with this at all. B) It ends up being argued in front of a jury.

 

[arakboss]

I would be absolutely flabbergasted if; A) someone gets charged with this at all. B) It ends up being argued in front of a jury.

I would too but unless the courts finally give it the heave-ho, it remains a remote possibility.

 

[Koda]

A photo is evidence.
It would be up to the state to prove you edited its timestamp. Which if you didn't, would be impossible....

 

[Member 53328]

A photo is evidence.
It would be up to the state to prove you edited its timestamp. Which if you didn't, would be impossible....

How does the photo prove that the mags in the picture are the same mags that you claim to have purchased? What is unique or identifies them as the mags you claim them to be?

 

[Nosferatu]

It would be up to the state to prove you edited its timestamp. Which if you didn't, would be impossible....

The EXIF data would be used in conjunction with the file data written with the OS, specifically the modification date of the file itself.

If you haven't modified anything in the file, you're GTG.

 

[Koda]

How does the photo prove that the mags in the picture are the same mags that you claim to have purchased? What is unique or identifies them as the mags you claim them to be?

A closeup of the round count...

 

[Member 53328]

A closeup of the round count...

Who's not to say you took photos of someone else's mags and are now claiming that photo as your own?

In all honesty - not trying to be an a$$. But there are a lot of holes in this whole photo argument and a court will shred them up. I don't think there is a bomb proof way of documenting (if you decide to go that route) your mags and have it be verified.

 

[arakboss]

Who's not to say you took photos of someone else's mags and are now claiming that photo as your own?

In all honesty - not trying to be an a$$. But there are a lot of holes in this whole photo argument and a court will shred them up. I don't think there is a bomb proof way of documenting (if you decide to go that route) your mags and have it be verified.

DNA samples of mags.

 

[Nosferatu]

Who's not to say you took photos of someone else's mags and are now claiming that photo as your own?

In all honesty - not trying to be an a$$. But there are a lot of holes in this whole photo argument and a court will shred them up. I don't think there is a bomb proof way of documenting (if you decide to go that route) your mags and have it be verified.

Outside of perhaps engraving them with your own serial numbers, documenting it and having the magazines and documents verified and notarized, I don't think there is any fool proof, practical way to prove ownership prior to the cutoff date.

It's just one reason this stupid law needs to get struck down.

 

[Koda]

Who's not to say you took photos of someone else's mags and are now claiming that photo as your own?

Thats for the state to prove.
Obviously they fit your gun... Its evidence.
Its not "bombproof" evidence, but its evidence. Now its up to the state to disprove it.....

 

[WeaponizedMRE]

The EXIF data would be used in conjunction with the file data written with the OS, specifically the modification date of the file itself.

If you haven't modified anything in the file, you're GTG.

I can easily falsify all of that data with no trouble at all.

 

[American123]

I'm very confident that the whole "prove you are not guilty" liability put on a defendant, is very easily determined to be entirely unconstitutional and it is only because the courts move so slow compared to the idiots that pass laws that the two haven't already squared that.

The notion of needing a permit to buy something also at it's face is an extreme degree of infringement, so if the courts are worth anything at all, this seems dead in the water under a legal review.

 

[tomcat]

Just pay cash and they don't need to know what you have

 

[Member 53328]

Thats for the state to prove.
Obviously they fit your gun... Its evidence.
Its not "bombproof" evidence, but its evidence. Now its up to the state to disprove it.....

I dont care what this bill says. Innocent until proven guilty. It's not my job to prove when I bought the mags. It's on them to prove that I committed a crime. They can go f-ck themselves.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

IMO a lot of this "what if" stuff is getting a bit silly.

IF anyone ever has to prove it in court, it seems to me you make your case with evidence and testimony. How much evidence you want on file (with yourself I mean) is up to each individual.

On the crazy anal end you could add serial numbers and take photos and get photo notarized for the date.

On the other end you can do nothing.

In the middle are simple and easy methods such as taking a photo with your driver's license and emailing it to yourself so there is a preserved date on the email. Receipts are great of course if you happen to have them. Whether something like that is "enough" or "too much" is up to each person. Other methods are shown in post #145 found on page 8 of this thread. Perhaps that organization will add more methods to that list as they become known.

 

[AshWilliams]

There's a gazillion tools out there to edit EXIF data to whatever you want - including the timestamp.

I think the only real defense is going to be having a receipt for each copy of a magazine.

But I also believe not a single person will be charged with this. At worse, it will be an add-on to a bunch of other crimes committed, of which this charge would be the least of your concerns.

This was the attitude that was prevalent during 114 signature gathering. Then it went on the ballot. Then it got passed.

Here we are again with folks "not worried".

Heads up: all gun sales in Oregon are approaching a complete halt Dec. 8th with no real plan in sight.

I'm the guy with the washboard sign saying the end is near. Money dictates everything.

Peace out.

 

[AshWilliams]

I dont care what this bill says. Innocent until proven guilty. It's not my job to prove when I bought the mags. It's on them to prove that I committed a crime. They can go f-ck themselves.

Easy to say on an internet forum. Much less so when you're hauled into court on a class A misdemeanor.

Truth.