Is bill HB1143 based on purchase date or transfer date

[monkeybutler]

Guess I am kind of surprised the antigun dix have not tried to impose something like a $1000 tax on every firearm or serialized receiver.

 

[gmerkt]

The anti gunners wrote the actual law as passed on the initiative. More expensive mandatory training will just price more people out of the market and create additional delays in people being able to obtain a firearm for any lawful purpose. This has been declared unconstitutional in several states already.

Basically roadblocks.

They're trying too, but are running into funding issues, and other logistics (use of NICS system) and checking on people who are dead, moved, or don't own a firearm anymore. It keeps coming back around in the WSP reports. Yes, it sounded good on the ballot to the gun grabbers and those without a knowledge of our Constitution.

This concept will never work until they get a comprehensive firearm registry set up for all gun owners in the state. Which isn't likely soon for a constellation of reasons. They could set up a half-assed version based on firearms that get papered through the DOL. Which is an increasing number but by no way imaginable close to the number of guns and owners extant.

 

[gmerkt]

checking on people who are dead

Question, which you may know the answer to. The RCW requires notification of firearms disposition for decedents. But since Wash. state is a community property state, is a spouse required to do this when their other half dies? Both members of the marital arrangement already own half by law. I've wondered the same thing about car registrations.

 

[gmerkt]

Guess I am kind of surprised the antigun dix have not tried to impose something like a $1000 tax on every firearm or serialized receiver.

Don't say it too loudly. We're already hearing re. licensing, "We do it for vehicles and fishing, why not guns?" They could use the same argument for firearms.

I've pondered this for years, actually. Probably most of us here know collectors who have quite a number of guns. In some cases, hundreds. A per gun tax (how often?) could run into some serious money for such people.

 

[Sporting Systems]

Guess I am kind of surprised the antigun dix have not tried to impose something like a $1000 tax on every firearm or serialized receiver.

SHHHHHHHH!

 

[Sporting Systems]

Question, which you may know the answer to. The RCW requires notification of firearms disposition for decedents. But since Wash. state is a community property state, is a spouse required to do this when their other half dies? Both members of the marital arrangement already own half by law. I've wondered the same thing about car registrations.

How did it work for the fishy refund checks the AG just mailed out? That's how well the state will run "in perpetuity" checks.

 

[Sporting Systems]

Basically roadblocks.


This concept will never work until they get a comprehensive firearm registry set up for all gun owners in the state. Which isn't likely soon for a constellation of reasons. They could set up a half-assed version based on firearms that get papered through the DOL. Which is an increasing number but by no way imaginable close to the number of guns and owners extant.

So, DOL has a registry of handgun transfers dating back to 1934. It has about 5 million individual records, I got that number in a Public Disclosure/FOIA earlier this year. Since July 1 2019, they got all semi auto rifles too. Now, they're getting everything with the new SAFE system reporting ALL transfers to DOL. Of course this a direct violation of Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986.

 

[gmerkt]

So, DOL has a registry of handgun transfers dating back to 1934. It has about 5 million individual records, I got that number in a Public Disclosure/FOIA earlier this year. Since July 1 2019, they got all semi auto rifles too. Now, they're getting everything with the new SAFE system reporting ALL transfers to DOL. Of course this a direct violation of Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986.

This is interesting stuff for me. I've been aware for decades that DOL keeps a record of my purchases of handguns. One of my former neighbors was a sheriff's deputy. He told me that when my driver license is run, it also shows other DOL data including firearms that they have a record of. Like vehicles. Plus other stuff like healthcare licensing, barbering, etc. If this is true, some of those guys owning 100's of guns might have a long print-out. But it's made me think, that if they run this in the computer in their patrol vehicle, they may approach people in a different manner depending on what the information lists.

Yes, I've been aware that many more guns are added to the DOL lists as a result of recent changes in the RCW. Yet there is a very large quantity of guns out there that will never make a list, short of mandatory universal registration.

When I-1639 came into effect, I remember people saying they would never again buy anything that would "put them on a list." If they'd ever bought a handgun in Wash., they were already on it.

Some years ago, there were articles in the newspaper about how the DOL workers were snowed under and were months then a couple of years behind on filing the paperwork. I suppose this had been remedied by now.

Computers are the Devil's Tool when it comes to personal liberty.

 

[Sporting Systems]

This is interesting stuff for me. I've been aware for decades that DOL keeps a record of my purchases of handguns. One of my former neighbors was a sheriff's deputy. He told me that when my driver license is run, it also shows other DOL data including firearms that they have a record of. Like vehicles. Plus other stuff like healthcare licensing, barbering, etc. If this is true, some of those guys owning 100's of guns might have a long print-out. But it's made me think, that if they run this in the computer in their patrol vehicle, they may approach people in a different manner depending on what the information lists.

Yes, I've been aware that many more guns are added to the DOL lists as a result of recent changes in the RCW. Yet there is a very large quantity of guns out there that will never make a list, short of mandatory universal registration.

When I-1639 came into effect, I remember people saying they would never again buy anything that would "put them on a list." If they'd ever bought a handgun in Wash., they were already on it.

Some years ago, there were articles in the newspaper about how the DOL workers were snowed under and were months then a couple of years behind on filing the paperwork. I suppose this had been remedied by now.

Computers are the Devil's Tool when it comes to personal liberty.

Yup, we're working on something to remedy this. Working on a short video to share what the state has, how they use it, and how it's a violation of federal law. We have some folks from the LE community (Sheriffs and Chiefs) that agree with us, and we're looking to apply the FOPA to the DOL.

 

[quneur]

Q: How does this effect CPL applications? Does it go through the same process as a firearm? I imagine it goes thru the same BCG by WSP and DOL but does it get lumped with the registry, ie. rechecks?

I have concerns with the ability to get off the registry list (relocation or giving up the firearm) and the 'list' security from other agencies, local or federal.

 

[arakboss]

I have a couple buddy's that work at Cabela's in post falls, Idaho. As of 01/01/2024, any firearm that could be previously purchased over the counter, from a Washington individual, must sit on the shelf for the required 10 business days (14, including weekends) other states are required to comply with requirements from the buyers home state. Handguns etc, must still be transferred to a Washington State FFL, and Wa staters must do the paperwork in Washington, and your firearm sits in Washington purgatory for the required waiting period. I must say, I'm glad I live in Idaho.

Cabela's is overly cautious as evidenced by the fact they ditched all 10+ round magazines in Oregon stores.

The 10 day waiting period is part of the "procedure" for releasing the firearm. WA law does not require the WA procedures or specific background check requirements to be followed by other states unless part of the transaction takes place in WA State.

AND PROVIDED FURTHER, That when any part of the transaction takes place in Washington , including, but not limited to, internet sales, such residents are subject to the procedures and background checks required by this chapter

 

[gmerkt]

As of 01/01/2024, any firearm that could be previously purchased over the counter, from a Washington individual, must sit on the shelf for the required 10 business days

This is a Cabela's thing, not a Wash. state thing.

I'm in the Spokane / Bonners Ferry , Ida. zone once in a while to visit relatives. But there won't be much that Cabela's is selling that would cause me to make a second trip back just to pick it up. That's a 600 mile round trip. A better plan for me would be for them to send it to my Wash. dealer, who has minimal charges for transfers.

Cabela's used to have this deal where you could look up guns in their "libraries" all across the country. Then if you like one, you could pay $25 to the selling store and they would ship it to your local Cabela's. Where you could inspect it; then if you liked it, you could complete the purchase. If you didn't like it, they kept it and you were only out $25. I've been told this is no longer how it works. Now, you can look at other store library inventories, but if you want something, you must pay full price up front to the selling store. Then they will ship it to your local Cabela's where you can do the transfer and pick it up. Normally, used guns at Cabela's are non-returnable, so it may or may not be worse than a Gunbroker purchase. Because at least some GB sellers allow returns. However, if you looked at it in Post Falls, say, then had it shipped to your local Cabela's or your FFL, that isn't an issue. I'm thinking since my local Cabela's isn't that far away, I could avoid even a modest transfer fee by having something from another Cabela's shipped there. And suffer their agonizing, assholic, time-consuming transfer process.

 

[arakboss]

This is a Cabela's thing, not a Wash. state thing.

I'm in the Spokane / Bonners Ferry , Ida. zone once in a while to visit relatives. But there won't be much that Cabela's is selling that would cause me to make a second trip back just to pick it up. That's a 600 mile round trip. A better plan for me would be for them to send it to my Wash. dealer, who has minimal charges for transfers.

Cabela's used to have this deal where you could look up guns in their "libraries" all across the country. Then if you like one, you could pay $25 to the selling store and they would ship it to your local Cabela's. Where you could inspect it; then if you liked it, you could complete the purchase. If you didn't like it, they kept it and you were only out $25. I've been told this is no longer how it works. Now, you can look at other store library inventories, but if you want something, you must pay full price up front to the selling store. Then they will ship it to your local Cabela's where you can do the transfer and pick it up. Normally, used guns at Cabela's are non-returnable, so it may or may not be worse than a Gunbroker purchase. Because at least some GB sellers allow returns. However, if you looked at it in Post Falls, say, then had it shipped to your local Cabela's or your FFL, that isn't an issue. I'm thinking since my local Cabela's isn't that far away, I could avoid even a modest transfer fee by having something from another Cabela's shipped there. And suffer their agonizing, assholic, time-consuming transfer process.

Their transfer process is painfully long.

 

[arakboss]

Slightly off topic: If a WA buyer wishes to buy a non-semiauto long gun but the seller won't ship to WA, have it shipped to an Oregon FFL. Check in advanced that the Oregon FFL is still doing transfers for WA residents. You may have to use an Oregon billing address with some retailers.

 

[gmerkt]

Their transfer process is painfully long.

Some day, they are going to find a body hanging by a bootlace in the Bargain Cave as a result of this.

 

[arakboss]

Some day, they are going to find a body hanging by a bootlace in the Bargain Cave as a result of this.

Our store got rid of Bargain Cave

 

[lucusloc]

Don't say it too loudly. We're already hearing re. licensing, "We do it for vehicles and fishing, why not guns?" They could use the same argument for firearms.

Because in both cases we do not license mere possession or even private usage. The only thing that is licensed is public use/taking.

e.g. I can own/build/modify any type of vehicle I want for use on my own private property and the state can do nothing about it. How many people own "farm trucks" that never leave their property that have no record or registration attached to them? Such vehicles are even legal to operate sans drivers license by children, if the owner so chooses (ask me how I learned to drive). You can even modify such vehicles so they are not road legal and still keep driving them around on any private road/not road you so choose.

Same for fishing; the only fishing that is licensed is fishing that takes from the "public" wild or stocked population. If you privately stock a pond with fish you purchased or breed you can take as many as you want from that private watershed. (check your local laws though, there may be restrictions on which species you are allowed to keep in this way, e.g. potentially invasive species or species that might be controlled due to endangered status or whatnot. That is a separate issue to licensed fishing and strays into ecosystem regulation and management.)

If we apply this same logic to guns you could own a howitzer and the government could not say a thing as long as its usage never left private lands. This includes transport, as I can transport "illegal" cars on trailers so long as the transport vehicle is properly configured and licensed. I am pretty sure that is not the type of licensing people mean when they say "we should license guns like cars!" Such people are only familiar with public-use style car ownership and have never experienced the wide array of private-only car ownership.

 

[Sporting Systems]

Slightly off topic: If a WA buyer wishes to buy a non-semiauto long gun but the seller won't ship to WA, have it shipped to an Oregon FFL. Check in advanced that the Oregon FFL is still doing transfers for WA residents. You may have to use an Oregon billing address with some retailers.

Careful with this advice. We see it on monthly basis, they're buying items banned in WA and the Oregon FFL calls us to help and we tell them we cant' have to ship it back. Would be nice if everyone trying to get around the law, would stand up and fight to prevent them.

 

[Sporting Systems]

Q: How does this effect CPL applications? Does it go through the same process as a firearm? I imagine it goes thru the same BCG by WSP and DOL but does it get lumped with the registry, ie. rechecks?

I have concerns with the ability to get off the registry list (relocation or giving up the firearm) and the 'list' security from other agencies, local or federal.

CPLS are done by your local agency, not WSP. You are only rechecked on CPL when you renew.

 

[CLRTR999]

Ah ok so I definitely missed it. Thank you all... I signed up for alerts going forward. I shouldn't have missed this.

No, you shouldn't have missed this.
Do you VOTE??
The anti-gun politicians depend on citizens being apathetic and not paying attention and not voting - that's how all this crap gets put into place.

There are plenty of pro-2A gun organizations that send out news and alerts regarding local and state firearm legislation that every member on this forum should be receiving. 2AF, GOA, FPC, NRA-ILA (to name a few) all provide email alerts and/or newsletters and there is a section here on NW Firearms that covers all these topics as well:

Firearm Legislation & Activism

Questions and discussion about proposed local, state, and federal firearm legislation, as well as pro-gun activism efforts in Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming

www.northwestfirearms.com

Glad you got signed up for alerts, though you don't mention where from. Plenty of ways for anyone interested to stay informed on these issues that don't cost anything.