M.I.L. has her "come to S&W" moment

[dobeman]

I don't have a Ruger SR22 pistol, but I do have a Ruger Charger with a red dot. All of our handguns are light carry pistols and revolvers, except the nightstand Beretta 9mm. I don't want to have any big booms or heavy recoil at first that might scare her off.

the 22 to get her started in guns? or as the defense weapon against possible future gang members? I never thought of 22 in that role. But if it's for training and handling, ok I get that.

 

[soberups]

If she isnt a "gun person" then be realistic about often she is likely to practice and how many different guns it makes sense for her to invest in initially.

If her practice time will always be taking place with you, then go ahead and buy the Charger for yourself and let her use it. Her gun should be a .38 revolver. Revolvers are a far better and safer choice for people with limited training, especially in stressful situations. No safety to figure out, no forgetting if one is in the chamber, no slide for weak hands to rack, no magazines for weak fingers to load. A hammerless revolver essentially has only 2 controls to operate; a trigger and a cylinder release. And you can tell if its loaded just by looking at it. If she becomes confident and enthusiastic about gun ownership, she can always upgrade. If not, a good .38 revolver will always serve her well for self defense.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

I don't think I wrote that clearly.

I would love to have my Mother-in-law take her first shots with a Ruger SR22, however due to our limited budget the only 22 pistol we have is a new Ruger Charger 10/22 with the bipod and red dot. I got it so my kids could plink.

 

[waglockfan]

The 20 gauge is a good idea. Mossberg is my flavor just because I had a 870 rust in the safe. The parkerizing is cheezy on Remingtons', but my 590 looks factory fresh after 4 years. I'm thinking your MIL will like the easy access safety on the receiver tang versus the button style on the trigger guard.

Many ammunition companies such as Federal and Hornady make excellent 20 gauge home defense loads with either slug or buckshot rounds.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

At first I was thinking of a 12 gauge with low recoil #1 buckshot since all types of ammo are less expensive and easy to find. But a 20 gauge with #3 buck may be more her speed. I also have Mossbergs, but her current budget is only $300.

 

[RicInOR]

A single shot is better than no shot. And, Double barrels. Often available in the second hand market.

Suggestion: Run a Want to Buy ad in our section below - explain the story.

Ask Friends and family to toss a "latte" her way - 20 people at $5 each there is enough to buy ammo for practice and maybe some accessories ( on the gun shell holder, trigger lock for when the little ones visit )

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Unfortunately stupid laws have made the second hand market more expensive and inconvenient.

 

[Vanillagerrilla]

From my own experience with "non gun folk", my former neighbor is not into firearms , but he sure liked shooting mine.
I invited him out a few times for plinking, and to a skeet match. He was safe and reasonably comfortable with handling long guns and pistols. He shot well for a novice, and had a fun time.
When he asked me to recommend a weapon for home defense , my response was " Are you willing to kill someone to protect your family?" He looked like I hit him with a 2x4... I asked again, " If you have no other choice, are you okay with taking someone else's life to save you own, or your childeren's?"
He said no.
I told him he shouldn't buy a gun.
I instructed him to get an alarm for the house, have it monitored , and get some bear spray to keep handy.
I'm not saying having guns means you will eventually take a life, or be in a situation that you will have to make that decision, but I feel that everyone needs to be comfortable with their personal choice for self protection.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

Pretty much everyone can kill, given the right motivation.

Years ago, a petite female friend had a small experience with domestic violence and was moved to seek a PDW. We repaired to the range with a German Walther PPK .380, a 1st gen Glock 17, a frriend's low volume production 3" full underlug barrel M60 Chief's Special with adjustable sights and Uncle Mike's grips, and my 4" Colt Diamondback .38 with Pachmayr Compac grips.

She didn't like the way the PPK concentrated recoil into the thumb-forefinger web. FWIW I later shot a similar but slightly bigger Makarov with soft Pearce grips and found it very comfortable.

My ordinarily supremely reliable Glock threw hot brass down her shirt front (which I found more amusing than she did) and actually jammed on her. Later, I realized she had been limp wristing it.

The 3" heavy barrel Chief came in second.

Once she shot the Diamondback with its heavy full underlug 4" barrel and Compac grips, the only way I could get it back was to find another for her, and you know those have been out of production for a long time.

For my own daughter, I followed Massad Ayoob's course and had a 4" Colt Police Positive Special lightened and smoothed up a bit, then fitted a Pachmayr grip.

The bottom line here seems to be that with ladies and small hands, the S&W J or Colt D frames work well, and a little extra barrel weight out front combines with soft grips to make recoil unobjectionable.

I used to be married to a six foot 300 lb. woman of German/Russian peasant stock. She did not mind full magnum loads in a 2.5" S&W M66 with Pachmayr Compacs; only her arm and shoulder moved detectably when she fired. But she complained about a J-frame S&W Centennial .38 - until I replaced the small hardwood grips with a soft Hogue Monogrip.

Again, for many ladies, a small framed .38 Special with nice sights, comfortable grips and a little extra weight out front is a winning combination. For those who do not have petite hands, the S&W K frame guns are very hard to beat for training guns.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Walla Walla, Washington. http://www.nbcrightnow.com/story/30...table-condition-after-shooting-in-walla-walla



Good grip. She is 5' 10", weight undisclosed, 65 and still bakes her own bread, so strong hands from kneading dough. We are thinking a 20 gauge 18.5" shotgun loaded with #3 buckshot should do the trick. Just need a safe. I see BiMart has a 10 gun Stack On with dial combo lock for $219. Or a quick access device like a ShotLock

I really like my ShotLock! It was easy to install, it's quick to open, ready to rock and secure! BTW, I added some lag bolts. The screws that accompanied the lock are pretty small! Good luck getting your MIL set up!

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Pretty much everyone can kill, given the right motivation...

She didn't like the way the PPK concentrated recoil into the thumb-forefinger web...

Again, for many ladies, a small framed .38 Special with nice sights, comfortable grips and a little extra weight out front is a winning combination. For those who do not have petite hands, the S&W K frame guns are very hard to beat for training guns.

I hear you on the PPK. I sold my wife's Bersa 380 because she said the blowback recoil "went straight into the bone".

If she goes with a revolver I am thinking the 3" Ruger LCR 38sp would be the most comfortable for her with me pitching in the extra $100.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

I agree, go with the 3" barrel and it will be nicer to shoot, not much harder to conceal.

I don't suppose anyone recalls the Browning BDA .380 these days. Not quite a pocket pistol, but nice for the recoil sensitive.

 

[albin25]

"I don't suppose anyone recalls the Browning BDA .380"

Sure do... It was a version of the Beretta 80 series(Cheetah).
My favorite carry is a model 86 (tip up)

 

[PDX1953]

My Mother-in-law, who has always been uncomfortable around guns, has had her "come to Smith and Wesson" moment. A gang shooting several blocks from their house left one dead and the surviving gang members hid in neighboring yards, garages and some broke into houses trying to evade police.

Right now she is like a frightened squirrel, we want her to come over to our side but don't want to move to fast which might scare her off. I offered to take her to the sporting goods counter at BiMart so she could hold different pistols and shotguns to get a feel for what she likes and dislikes. I offered to buy her a safe while we were there. I also offered to pay for a CHL class so she can get a good overview of safety rules and firearm laws. She thought that she had to apply for permission first before buying a firearm.

I want her to get some familiarity with handling unloaded firearms before going out to the range. Then start her out with a 22 rifle and a Ruger Charger pistol.

Any suggestions?

I don't know if Dan's wife has a woman's class but maybe give them a call. Not knowing your MIL's age I'd still recommend Mrs Blackstone b/c she's in her 60's & very level headed - not the gung ho type. Can't hurt to call & chat.

https://www.blackstonegunsafety.com/about-blackstone-gun-safety/

 

[PaulB47]

"I'm a big proponent of first sessions with new (and worried) shooters taking place outdoors and not at an indoor range."

Absolutely! I believe I have been to an indoor range once, and that will be the last time. Talk about an awful environment for a newbie. I wouldn't even go to a regular pistol range, but that's just me. You want them to concentrate on learning, not on the noise and uproar.

If I had a fearful shooter, I'd probably start with a bolt 22 using CB caps. They are fun and not upsetting. But women trainers are always going to work better than men, for women students.

 

[Brutus57]

I have a Mak in .380 with rubberized grips...Hogue I think. Fits my large hands much better than stock plastic with a lanyard loop that dug into my palm. .380 Mak shoots well.

Brutus Out

 

[PiratePast40]

To go back to the question, "are you prepared to kill someone?". With all due respect, if that is your objective, then I believe that you're asking the wrong question. If myself or a loved one were being attacked, my thoughts would certainly not be on killing someone, it would be about getting them to stop whatever it is they're doing. I don't care if they die while being stopped, I just want them to stop.

People may question why the wording makes a difference, and I think that is also an important question. If someone new to guns keeps hearing that it's all about killing someone, they may be reluctant to shoot center mass, or even pick up or carry a gun. Of course an attacker could be killed, that's a given, but that shouldn't be your objective. They same as firing a warning shot or shooting to disable should not be an objective. Stopping the attack is the only legally defensible action.

Now, about that BDA .380. I sold mine sometime in the late 80's. Was a beautiful gun and fit my hands perfectly. Wish I still had it.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

She is really on a budget. I see that BiMart will have the Savage Arms Stevens Security Shotgun Combo on sale for $177.97 this Friday and Saturday. It is their Stevens 320 pump with 18.5" and 28" barrels.

Anyone have experience with these?

 

[Vanillagerrilla]

To go back to the question, "are you prepared to kill someone?". With all due respect, if that is your objective, then I believe that you're asking the wrong question. If myself or a loved one were being attacked, my thoughts would certainly not be on killing someone, it would be about getting them to stop whatever it is they're doing. I don't care if they die while being stopped, I just want them to stop.

People may question why the wording makes a difference, and I think that is also an important question. If someone new to guns keeps hearing that it's all about killing someone, they may be reluctant to shoot center mass, or even pick up or carry a gun. Of course an attacker could be killed, that's a given, but that shouldn't be your objective. They same as firing a warning shot or shooting to disable should not be an objective. Stopping the attack is the only legally defensible action.

Now, about that BDA .380. I sold mine sometime in the late 80's. Was a beautiful gun and fit my hands perfectly. Wish I still had it.

I find it was a fair question to ask during a casual conversation, rather than have him forced to make that decision while pointing his weapon at a knife wielding intruder in his daughters bedroom at 2 am .
Its the same question to ask someone that decides to carry a concealed handgun for protection.
Are you prepared to follow that course of action to a possible end? To stop a threat, that can result in a loss of life?
If the answer is " no, I am not willing to stop a threat to myself or others that may mean killing an armed bad guy" , then I ask why would you want to carry a loaded gun at all?
Let the cops do the shooting at that point.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

I have spoken with the "oh, I could never kill someone" types, but given the right scenario, most of them realize we all can kill if we have the proper motivation.

But it IS very important to realize we do not shoot to kill. The only entity that can legally decide to kill someone is a capital Court passing a death sentence. We shoot to STOP (a threat). The cop shooting the fleeing violent felon is stopping him because the cop has cause to believe he'll harm other members of society.

Back when my wife was a cop in South Texas, a child-raping goblin, apparently having missed the special entry in the Book of Bad Ideas regarding pissing off a big redhead from Texas who is wearing a .357 Magnum, stabbed her (which made her angry). He ended up dead of JHP poisoning. But even then, she was not shooting to kill in the eyes of the law; she was shooting to STOP a threat.

Never, never say you shot to kill. Yes, the results of a couple of well placed rounds may have been predictably fatal, but you shot to stop the threat and you stopped shooting when he was no longer a threat. Following the news, and having just seen the dashcam video, I would say the Officer who shot Laquan McDonald last year is about to face the consequences of continuing to shoot after the threat has been neutralized. Do not let that happen to you.