Living Off the Grid - Not Without Permission - FL

[RicInOR]

"The fight of Cape Coral, Florida resident Robin Speronis to live “off the grid” has escalated with the city’s recent decision to cap her access to the sewer so she can no longer use it."

?Pure evil?: City caps sewer of woman fighting to live ?off the grid?

"The self-sufficient woman has lived for more than a year-and-a-half using solar energy, a propane camping stove, rain water, and eating mainly non-perishable food. "


City posts property as Uninhabitable

"municipalities don’t have the power to evict,” and that the notice was placed because they, “…merely [wanted] access to the home to provide suggestion so Speronis can live off the grid in Cape Coral.” "

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[cpy911]

She did not pay her bill for using the city sewer system, so they capped it. That is fine. But they don't have the right to evict her.

 

[AMProducts]

I don't understand the urban/suburban off-grid fallacy. If you're out in the country, it's not unusual to have to truck in water, and use a septic system. And frankly, wtf would you not want your turds and shower water to go away? It seems life would have been much easier if she had just paid her sewer bill.

A certain chunk of the "off-grid movement" seems to be obsessed with the smell of their own feces, as though it was a divine right. And that's fine, until you have neighbors.

 

[jluck]

She needs to move away from city services if she doesn't want to pay to use them. Simple in my mind.

 

[Grunwald]

Don't try to do that in Washington state. All the rain water belongs to the state.
If it rains on your house and you use it they will try to charge you.
Can't wait until they deem all the air the property of the state also.
You'll be walking around with an air meter mounted to your nose.

 

[Both Eyes Open]

Don't try to do that in Washington state. All the rain water belongs to the state.
If it rains on your house and you use it they will try to charge you.
Can't wait until they deem all the air the property of the state also.
You'll be walking around with an air meter mounted to your nose.

<broken link removed>

It turns out that rain water harvesting is not currently regulated by the Washington State department of ecology. News to me.

 

[JackThompson]

Doesn't surprise me. It's not like rain water in Washington state is a rare thing.

 

[Riot]

<broken link removed>

It turns out that rain water harvesting is not currently regulated by the Washington State department of ecology. News to me.

Rainwater collection is regulated in WA state per RCW 19.27.074

1702.2 Permit. It shall be unlawful for a person to construct, install, alter, or cause to be constructed, installed, or altered a nonpotable rainwater catchment system in a building or on a premises without first obtaining a permit to do such work from the authority having jurisdiction.

EXCEPTIONS: 1. A permit is not required for exterior rainwater catchment systems used for outdoor drip and subsurface irrigation with a maximum storage capacity of 360 gallons (1363 L).
2. A plumbing permit is not required for rainwater catchment systems for single family dwellings where outlets, piping, and system components are located on the exterior of the building. This does not exempt the need for permits where required for electrical connections, tank supports, or enclosures.

It just doesn't apply to houses with exterior collections that hold under 360gal.

 

[MarkAd]

Don't try to do that in Washington state. All the rain water belongs to the state.
If it rains on your house and you use it they will try to charge you.
Can't wait until they deem all the air the property of the state also.
You'll be walking around with an air meter mounted to your nose.

You are totally wrong. To update you please read this document.

<broken link removed>

 

[Eugenian]

Has she never heard of an earth closet? Why flush your turds when they can provide wonderful fertilizer for your vegetable garden?

 

[Stomper]

Mmmmm... You are what you eat.

 

[Norm0931]

Collecting Rainwater is illegal in certain cities in Oregon though. Anyone know what happened to that guy down South (think near Eugene) who got sued, fined, and threatened with prison about collecting rainwater on his farm?

 

[Fast Eddie]

Collecting Rainwater is illegal in certain cities in Oregon though. Anyone know what happened to that guy down South (think near Eugene) who got sued, fined, and threatened with prison about collecting rainwater on his farm?

That is agricultural land use and water rights, it's rises above storing drinking water for your home and garden.

I come from a place where annual rainfall in a any given year averages about 10 inches. My uncle who has farmed his whole life, has a law degree in land use and water rights. It is the reason we were able to establish shared private reservoirs and not be at the mercy of the BLM.

Water is a big deal, it always has been, it always will be.

Patterico&#039;s Pontifications » Oregon Man Sentenced to Jail for Collecting Rainwater on His Own Property?

 

[CamoDeafie]

SO..in Australia, in 2033, rain hasn't fallen for 11 years and this corporation, Water And Power, controls all the water and the power clearly....
^^ Malcolm Dowell from Tank Girl, a 1995 film with Naomi Watts and Lori whatsername
might happen MUCH sooner in the US for some....a result of "Water And Power" from "Public Utilities Companies".....

 

[idahoan]

she should have told them that she was Mennonite or Amish, they wouldn't touch her with a 50 foot pole. Its damn near a cultural past time of suing states that infringe on their religious freedom, and they win, allot. They took on PA, NY and OH, and won, no one will touch them now.

 

[The Heretic]

That is agricultural land use and water rights, it's rises above storing drinking water for your home and garden.

I come from a place where annual rainfall in a any given year averages about 10 inches. My uncle who has farmed his whole life, has a law degree in land use and water rights. It is the reason we were able to establish shared private reservoirs and not be at the mercy of the BLM.

Water is a big deal, it always has been, it always will be.

Patterico's Pontifications » Oregon Man Sentenced to Jail for Collecting Rainwater on His Own Property?

My father worked for the State of Oregon in the Water Rights dept. for several decades.

Water is a big deal.

Like some other natural resources, water is a limited finite resource, and a damned important one. We have huge problems with our aquifers, even here in the Pacific NorthWet. I have a neighbor whose well dropped its static level 100 feet in the last 20 years and we live on a mountain where we get 50% more rainfall than in the valley.

I am fortunate that my well is relatively shallow - it only goes down 120 feet - static water level at 60 feet. My neighbors wells go down between 400 and 600 feet.

Water is a public shared resource, and that includes rainfall. That is the law in Oregon and a number of other states. It is that way for very good reasons.

The reason there are issues with people "collecting rainfall" is because that rain replenishes both aquifers and reservoirs. It may seem like it is a small thing if someone collects water and stores it, and it is on an individual basis, but when you got millions of people doing it this impacts all the other people who aren't, including their neighbors (if they are running on wells their well can draw down a neighbors well).

 

[AMProducts]

As they say in the west, whiskey is for drinking, water is for fighting...

While I largely agree with you Heretic, as a "public and shared" resource, much of this is predicated on the careful stewardship of elected and unelected officials such as your father. While I'm not saying he did a bad job there are some pretty severe problems going on when water levels are dropping in aquifers to the levels they are, that implies either overuse, or lack of replenishment, but usually both. As a consequence, there are things humans can do to mitigate these impacts, such as building infrastructure to capture water, create recharge ponds (to recharge the aquifers) and the like. Thus far, the modern environmental movement seems dead set against these, to the point that they are trying to tear down dams and remove all evidence of human activity. While I tend to agree that we need to maintain the environment in as pristine state as possible for future generations, if we all die of thirst, or famine there will be no future generations.

In many ways, the emphasis on water rights has special implications for people who want to be connected to sewer systems without having to pay for it. Raw sewage running into water supplies is something a good chunk of humanity gave up during the renaissance, and you have two options on water treatment... pay someone to do it for you, or learn to do it yourself. I don't see the original subject doing that.

 

[Hook686]

She did not pay her bill for using the city sewer system, so they capped it. That is fine. But they don't have the right to evict her.

Will the property then become a health hazard and the city can then condemn it ?

 

[The Heretic]

Yeah, my dad was both a farmer and a water rights worker, so he understood the issues, as well do I.

A lot of people though, especially conservatives, just don't understand the idea of shared resources - especially finite ones. They seem to have a knee jerk response on the issues.

 

[JackD]

Whoa! Now it's political? What's up with that?