Letters to price gouging businesses

[Mathmattx]

I am encouraging folks to go to websites like Able ammo, cheaper than dirt, etc and use their customer service links to let them know they have lost business for ever. $50.00 bucks for a box of 22 mag...I suppose they are free to cheat their 'customers' and we are free to take our business elsewhere.

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[TonsOfOregonBrass]

Here is a different perspective. Most stores rely on volume in the gun market especially online stores. The problem right now is there is no volume to sell. When you normally sell 10000 boxes of something for X amount and make Y, you can cover all your overhead, plus keep some extra for yourself. The biggest problem with todays market is instead of getting 10000 of an item. You are only getting 500. So in order to cover your overhead and pay yourself some the price must go up.

It is pretty simple economics. The other choice is to lay off employees, and lower overhead so you only need 500 items to cover your bases. But if you were one of the employees being laid off you would not be that happy.

I am not saying $50 for .22 mag is not extreme. But you do not know the other factors or how the firearms industry works.

 

[NWGlockgal]

Here is a different perspective. Most stores rely on volume in the gun market especially online stores. The problem right now is there is no volume to sell. When you normally sell 10000 boxes of something for X amount and make Y, you can cover all your overhead, plus keep some extra for yourself. The biggest problem with todays market is instead of getting 10000 of an item. You are only getting 500. So in order to cover your overhead and pay yourself some the price must go up.

It is pretty simple economics. The other choice is to lay off employees, and lower overhead so you only need 500 items to cover your bases. But if you were one of the employees being laid off you would not be that happy.

I am not saying $50 for .22 mag is not extreme. But you do not know the other factors or how the firearms industry works.

I would agree with you except some businesses,such as CTD, are SO much higher than their competitors that one can not come up with any other conclusion but price gouging.
That said, they are free to list their products at any price they choose and I am free not to buy from them. Not now,and not ever.

 

[TonsOfOregonBrass]

I would agree with you except some businesses,such as CTD, are SO much higher than their competitors that one can not come up with any other conclusion but price gouging.
That said, they are free to list their products at any price they choose and I am free not to buy from them. Not now,and not ever.

And that is actually the best way to communicate what you do not like. Businesses ultimately are there for MONEY. I am always amazed at people who continue to buy from stores that treat them like C R A P. The best way to show you are not happy with their business model is to not buy from them. Buy from their competition so they can grow.

It is like buying from business that are anti-gun. If you do not buy from them and only buy from businesses that are pro gun. the anti-gun businesses will eventually become pro gun or go out of business. Or the pro gun business will grow to be a larger more competitive business.

 

[NWGlockgal]

And that is actually the best way to communicate what you do not like. Businesses ultimately are there for MONEY. I am always amazed at people who continue to buy from stores that treat them like C R A P. The best way to show you are not happy with their business model is to not buy from them. Buy from their competition so they can grow.

It is like buying from business that are anti-gun. If you do not buy from them and only buy from businesses that are pro gun. the anti-gun businesses will eventually become pro gun or go out of business. Or the pro gun business will grow to be a larger more competitive business.

Exactly. I am sure CTD is aware of what is being posted about them online. And they don 't care. Fire them as a supplier and move on to someone else.

 

[Mathmattx]

Good argument ..... But seeing firearms related sales (guns, ammo, parts, etc) are at an all time record volume your argument holds no water. There is a chasm of a difference between no product to sell and product flying off the shelf as it comes in. Its gouging plain and simple.

 

[TonsOfOregonBrass]

I can just tell you there is no more record sales because 1 the panic of a ban is gone for at least this year, and 2 there is nothing for dealers to buy to resale. Stores cannot just get what ever they want to put on their shelves. They are just getting what ever they can. Dont think every gun store in america would die to have as much .22 as they could handle right now. But it is not available.

Either way, it does not negate the fact that you can speak with your wallet. I do not agree with what those companies have done. But it is their company they can make what ever decision they need to in order to grow it as best as possible. It does not change the fact that you can choose not to buy from them. support others that did not gouge.

The biggest problem with a surge in sales is the slump that follows. everyone spent their gun budget for the year now. So sales for stores will slow down. Those that did not gouge will keep their regulars. But will not be getting those one time buyers that normally buy throughout the year. So you are mad at the gougers, but unless you support those that did not only the gougers will be left as they made enough money to wait out the slump. And when it comes down to it most people will conveniently forget in a few months or a year when they see what they want at those store for a good price again.

The sad fact is, unless the store has a good business model and plan / reserves to survive a slump you wont be able to buy from anyone but the gougers.

 

[Netspirit]

Naming the price is a basic economic right of any business or individual (similar to the First Amendment for citizens).

If you can find it cheaper elsewhere - buy it elsewhere. Do not call complaining that the price is not within your budget. Do not beg, have some dignity.

(Yes, I am also suffering from the lack of cheap 9mm. I will survive)

 

[RBid]

Businesses listen to dollars. When you want to make a statement pertaining to how you feel about their business practices, you spend elsewhere. If enough people vote the same way, they will take notice.

On the subject of price gouging:
There was a period of time where businesses basically needed to put prices up, because supply/backfill was nonexistent. That was a relatively short window. People who set prices higher during that period of reduced supply were not necessarily gouging-- they were surviving. Since inventory began to replenish*, the need to sell each unit at that higher mark is no longer there.


*I use the asterisk, because the state of the industry is that there is still no in-stock back inventory. Distributors are basically dry. Dealers are getting whatever manufacturers are spitting out in that month's production. Dealers can get "stuff", but they can't get specific stuff.

 

[coyoteman5]

And that is actually the best way to communicate what you do not like. Businesses ultimately are there for MONEY. I am always amazed at people who continue to buy from stores that treat them like C R A P. The best way to show you are not happy with their business model is to not buy from them. Buy from their competition so they can grow.


It is like buying from business that are anti-gun. If you do not buy from them and only buy from businesses that are pro gun. the anti-gun businesses will eventually become pro gun or go out of business. Or the pro gun business will grow to be a larger more competitive business.

Or unless their competitors are also really high in their prices. It pays to shop around and be Patient.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

Since when was it wrong for someone to sell their private property for what they determine it's worth?
Do you want price controls?
Vote with your pocketbook.

 

[nwbobber]

There is nothing wrong with sending a letter indicating what your vote is. I know some business owners who appreciate the communication, it helps them make corrections to serve the customer better.
This is not because of limited supply. The manufacturers are producing product at record levels. This is because of people buying product they don't need because of fear of government regulation. Buying in record amounts and putting it on a shelf. The retailers who service these buyers are making profits. Some amount of price increase is to be expected, but I'm not stupid and I hate being lied to, as in "the prices we pay have gone up too". Well that might be true, if they are buying up Bi-Marts stock, to sell it back to us. The distributors have not raised the prices much, got that from my local gunshop which is run by HONEST people. They limit sales to two boxes per customer, to prevent the shenanigans that were occurring.
Any way you who feel you must defend the american way of supply and demand, with a little unmitigated greed on the side, I am voting with my dollar, and I will let these folks know I am doing it, and why. Get over it.

 

[Nightcrawler]

This is one reason I continue to shop at Walmart. They have not jacked up the prices on the firearms they bring in, including AR15s, and their ammo prices remain what they were before Newtown.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

There is nothing wrong with sending a letter indicating what your vote is. I know some business owners who appreciate the communication, it helps them make corrections to serve the customer better. This is not because of limited supply. The manufacturers are producing product at record levels. This is because of people buying product they don't need because of fear of government regulation. Buying in record amounts and putting it on a shelf. The retailers who service these buyers are making profits. Some amount of price increase is to be expected, but I'm not stupid and I hate being lied to, as in "the prices we pay have gone up too". Well that might be true, if they are buying up Bi-Marts stock, to sell it back to us. The distributors have not raised the prices much, got that from my local gunshop which is run by HONEST people. They limit sales to two boxes per customer, to prevent the shenanigans that were occurring.Any way you who feel you must defend the american way of supply and demand, with a little unmitigated greed on the side, I am voting with my dollar, and I will let these folks know I am doing it, and why. Get over it.

What is your source for finding out the overhead of CTD...etc? You have no idea. All you have is a healthy sense of entitlement regarding what you think others should charge you for their personal property. I don't have a problem with folks contacting business and letting them know why they are unhappy. But they are in business to make money. It's not like it's food or gasoline. I was careful learn from the past and to be sure I always had enough .22 on hand to get me through a nuclear winter. Should I be required to sell it to you at 1985 prices? Because that is no different than you demanding that Mr. Cheaper Than Dirt sell his .22 ammo at whatever the Heck you think is the right price.

 

[nwbobber]

The question is, why do you feel the need to educate the world on this point every time someone brings this up. Folks who charge too much, in the opinion of their customers, take a risk of having their customer base discuss it, stop shopping there, tell their friends, etc. That is the customers right, and always has been. So you want to belabor the point of what the rights of the business owners are. Point taken, got it. Most of us are customers here. We're talkin' bad about the greedy businessmen who are selling more of this stuff than ever, and laughing all the way to the bank. You go ahead and believe what you want. The manufacturers are producing at higher than normal rates, and the govmint is not to blame for all of the product disappearing. Research that.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

The question is, why do you feel the need to educate the world on this point every time someone brings this up. Folks who charge too much, in the opinion of their customers, take a risk of having their customer base discuss it, stop shopping there, tell their friends, etc. That is the customers right, and always has been. So you want to belabor the point of what the rights of the business owners are. Point taken, got it. Most of us are customers here. We're talkin' bad about the greedy businessmen who are selling more of this stuff than ever, and laughing all the way to the bank. You go ahead and believe what you want. The manufacturers are producing at higher than normal rates, and the govmint is not to blame for all of the product disappearing. Research that.

I don't have a problem with properly directed consumer activism. But calling someone greedy when you don't have an inkling of the facts behind a specific business is misplaced anger.
I make these points because they are accurate and true. Many here who are quick to point out entitlement issues in others are blind to their own.
I mean no disrespect toward you and apologize if that's what you are hearing fin me. I just disagree with your premis, not your right to take action as you see fit.

 

[waltermitty]

I don't have a problem with properly directed consumer activism. But calling someone greedy when you don't have an inkling of the facts behind a specific business is misplaced anger.
I make these points because they are accurate and true. Many here who are quick to point out entitlement issues in others are blind to their own.
I mean no disrespect toward you and apologize if that's what you are hearing fin me. I just disagree with your premis, not your right to take action as you see fit.

i agree. not much difference between firearms, ammo....and real estate. folks would not give a second thought to buying low and selling high, making a killing...and walk away gloating over their capital gains

 

[2ndtimer]

I just wish we could be honest. Sellers have a right to ask what they want for a product. Consumers have a right to purchase or not purchase at that price, if the seller is unwilling to negotiate. End of story. And all these declarations of identifying these "scalpers, gougers, greedy sellers" and never patronizing them ever again is in all likelihood untrue. IF Cheaper Than Dirt were to suddenly offer unlimited amounts of CCI Mini Mag ammo for $20 a brick, all the people that have sworn to never, ever buy from them again would be grabbing their keyboards so fast the it would probably crash the website. (I would be in for 10 bricks myself, hollow points, please!) We as consumers want the best deal we can get on the best products we can afford. In a free market, that sets the price and keeps the sellers in check, as consumers will naturally buy from the lowest cost seller. That is why people still buy from Walmart, even though their service isn't always the best. It is also why some of the Local Gun Stores may be dreading the return to product availability, because many of the customers that are suddenly buying from them will return to lower cost sources once the supply pipeline refills and the largest volume buyers can purchase at the lowest cost and pass the savings along. In the meantime, buy or don't. If you choose to buy and pay a higher price, it is your choice. But don't curse the seller who is offering the product at what they feel is a reasonable price in the current market. And don't curse the buyer, who must feel the price is fair, given the current market. If they could buy it cheaper, they would. If they choose not to wait, that is their choice. OK, now my rant is over. I hope the market returns to "normal" soon, although I doubt we will see pre-Newtown prices again. Once the market supports higher prices, they generally stabilize at a higher level than previously.

 

[U201491]

I am glad to see some here have good sense.
The rant on people selling for a fair price is done too often. Either buy it or don't buy it.
If I buy something for a certain price and decide to sell it, it will be sold at the current market rate.
That is good business and actually the mentality that made America prosperous. I am seeing a liberal economic mentality
on a firearms forum, which for all intents and purpose in generally a conservative crowd. Its a very confusing crowd here.
It is really up to each individual what they sell for, or what they decide to buy for. I recently put an ad for trade only up, and like
was suggested in the rules to put some kind of value on it. I spent a couple hours researching current prices all over the net and
took a middle figure on it, and was immediately pounced on by some (want it for half price if its yours, but buy mine at full price type) so I took the value off and as it was trade only, just let it ride with no value placed there and let people decide for themselves if it was what they wanted and what they might offer in trade for it. If I trade it here or elsewhere, does not matter, but I just look for value for value. I didn't put it there to be
belittled by someone for offering it up. I have some extreme difficulty understanding that entitlement mentality also.
There should not even be need for discussions like this. Times have changed I guess.

 

[Bam]

It's simple, don't buy from them and tell others why they shouldn't buy from them.

Why waste your time telling them anything? Do you really honestly think they care one bit what you think? Obviously they are making money, otherwise they wouldn't price the way they do. If they did care, we wouldn't be having this discussion. So why waste YOUR time telling someone who doesn't care?