National Larry Vickers Troubles

[Dogbone38Super]

Do not worship "hero's", they never fail to disappoint.

Many of these guys become legends in their own minds.

 

[TTSX]

Many of these guys become legions in their own minds.

With jiggly jowels. Like a bulldog.

 

[RVTECH]

Instead of acknowledging that, members here pile on the guy as if they are ATF fanbois. It is no surprise why we have all the antigun laws we do and why there will be more.

No, it is BECAUSE of guys like this Larry Vickers (who I was blissfully ignorant of before this thread) is why there will be more antigun laws.

Regardless of of how you believe 'ALL gun laws are unconstitutional' there are still laws that have to be followed and abided by. 'Thumbing one's nose' at the law and knowingly and intentionally breaking it for personal gain is NOT something Pro 2A. In this case it was something he did for his own selfish benefit however 'on the surface' of the article it appears the police chief (and the others) may have been 'materially involved' as well and not just used as a 'patsy'.

It is people like him who have twisted and convoluted the gun owing 'community' into something the antis use to their benefit to push for more anti gun laws.

This Vickers prick (and others like him) need to be slapped so many times they think they are surrounded...

 

[American123]

"All gun laws are unconstitutional."

Instead of acknowledging that, members here pile on the guy as if they are ATF fanbois. It is no surprise why we have all the antigun laws we do and why there will be more.

I noticed that as well, pathetic.

 

[American123]

No, it is BECAUSE of guys like this Larry Vickers (who I was blissfully ignorant of before this thread) is why there will be more antigun laws.

Regardless of of how you believe 'ALL gun laws are unconstitutional' there are still laws that have to be followed and abided by. 'Thumbing one's nose' at the law and knowingly and intentionally breaking it for personal gain is NOT something Pro 2A. In this case it was something he did for his own selfish benefit however 'on the surface' of the article it appears the police chief (and the others) may have been 'materially involved' as well and not just used as a 'patsy'.

It is people like him who have twisted and convoluted the gun owing 'community' into something the antis use to their benefit to push for more anti gun laws.

This Vickers prick (and others like him) need to be slapped so many times they think they are surrounded...

FFS dude, if you think you can comply yourself to more freedom, dream on.

The left has a desire to eliminate private firearm ownership in the US. It won't matter how compliant you are.

Vickers broke a law that is repugnant to the constitution.

 

[Diamondback]

Make me POTUS and as soon as I can get SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Dettelbach removed I'm making him ATF Director with a mandate of "systematic dismantle, root and branch."

 

[Stomper]

With jiggly jowels. Like a bulldog.

And man-boobies with "dunlap disease".

 

[SCARed]

Can't say I've actually seen what laws were actually broken. They/he followed the law when obtaining the guns, they may have been at the very edge of what's legal, but it's still legal. IMO no different than 99.9% of people who have pistol braces to skirt the SBR laws.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Can't say I've actually seen what laws were actually broken. They/he followed the law when obtaining the guns, they may have been at the very edge of what's legal, but it's still legal. IMO no different than 99.9% of people who have pistol braces to skirt the SBR laws.

Oh, let me help you out with that

Also SHOULD it have been illegal? No. But it was and he knew it



On October 19, 2023, Larry Vickers pleaded guilty to participating in a conspiracy to import and obtain machineguns and other restricted firearms and admitted that he received some of the imported machineguns and other weapons. As detailed in his plea agreement, from June 2018 to March 2021 Vickers, allegedly with cooperation from Sean Reidpath Sullivan and Matthew Jeremy Hall imported machineguns and other restricted firearms under ATF Form 6 by falsely representing them as items for police department demonstration use. At the time, Sullivan was the owner of Trident Rifles in Gambrills, Maryland and an intelligence analyst for the Department of Homeland Security, while Hall was chief of police in Coats, North Carolina. Vickers retained machineguns and other restricted weapons in his personal collection, knowing the filed forms were fraudulent, and transferred other machineguns and restricted weapons to other FFLs and third parties.
Vickers also pleaded guilty to a conspiracy to violate U.S. sanctions against JSC Kalashnikov Concern between July 2014 and March 2021, in the Southern District of Florida. From July 2014 to March 2021 Vickers and 3 co-conspirators were seeking capital investment, technical data, engineering services, firearms, firearm parts, from individuals representing Kalashnikov Concern to "develop a U.S. business that would manufacture Kalashnikov-style firearms to be sold in the U.S. market and fill the gap left by the sanctions against Kalashnikov Concern" named "American Kalashnikov." Vickers had met with Kalashnikov Concern executives in North Carolina and started to receive consulting fees from American Kalashnikov starting from 2014. From July 2015 Vickers and several others provided promotional videography and marketing services valued between $10,000 and $200,000 to Kalashnikov Concern, receiving preferential access to the company's personnel and technical data.

 

[SCARed]

I guess it boils down to 2 seperate issues. For the first one which is what gets most people attention, an SOT (vickers) needed a love letter from a PD. He got one. Gun was purchased an put into SOT inventory. Again, all legal. Done by the book.i know several local SOTs that have done that exact thing.
Sounds to me like Vickers played the ATFs game and did so well, the ATF got butt hurt hence the conspiracy charge.

The other I guess I don't know enough details. Could be an ITAR violation, could just be a huge convoluted mess created by the ATF that would be very difficult for an individual to afford to get out of.

I mean the ATF has targeted people before for speaking their mind, and put them in prison for non firearm conspiracy reasons. Auto Key Card anyone??

 

[arakboss]

I guess it boils down to 2 seperate issues. For the first one which is what gets most people attention, an SOT (vickers) needed a love letter from a PD. He got one. Gun was purchased an put into SOT inventory. Again, all legal. Done by the book.i know several local SOTs that have done that exact thing.
Sounds to me like Vickers played the ATFs game and did so well, the ATF got butt hurt hence the conspiracy charge.

The other I guess I don't know enough details. Could be an ITAR violation, could just be a huge convoluted mess created by the ATF that would be very difficult for an individual to afford to get out of.

I mean the ATF has targeted people before for speaking their mind, and put them in prison for non firearm conspiracy reasons. Auto Key Card anyone??

...shall not be infringed:

None of this should be complicated, except for the fact that many have disregarded the "not" part and many others gladly except that.

 

[arakboss]

The FFL in Vickers case, reported him to ATF for free but we can expect a lot more Stasi type activities when laws like this pass.

Washington - HB 2332 (2023/2024) - Firearm bounty program

A new section is added to chapter 10.85 RCW to read as follows: (1) The firearm bounty program is established to encourage8 persons to submit information to law enforcement to locate firearms that have been used in the commission of a crime. Any person who submits information to any peace...

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[TTSX]

Mom forgot to tell him his face would freeze like that. It's like he's constantly sucking on a piece of stinky cheese

 

[Old Dog]

I've followed, and been familiar with Larry for probably the last ten or fifteen years. I have zero sympathy for him, because it's so obvious that he knew exactly what he was doing, and exactly what he was risking. His ego seems to have made him feel that he was above the law.

That said, he did have a few interesting pieces on the old Guns and Ammo television show.

 

[Dogfacedpony]

I guess I see it differently than some folks on this forum. It doesn't really matter if he broke a law, if that law goes against the Constitution. I believe it does go against it, therefore, it is my belief:

As one of "We the People", we have a duty to inform our public servants when they are not acting in accordance with the law of the land, The Constitution.

Informing them removes them from their lawyer, and their go-to excuse of "I didn't know."

Why take the bait of the media and elites, saying "if only we complied more, this wouldn't happen!"

History proves time and time again, that no society has ever complied their way out of tyranny.

It's apparent to me that there's an agenda and I don't believe it ends with the removal of 2A.

I believe it to be as much a spiritual battle as a physical one. The Bible foretold this about men in high worldly places and it's as accurate now as it was then.

 

[lucusloc]

The bit that pisses me off if that he folded. If you are going to challenge the dragon you need to be all in. Take that sh*t to court and make them defend it. I agree that these laws have "constitutional issues", and I even advocate for pushing them to their breaking point (as with braces, bump stocks and binary triggers). But if you are going to push don't fold when it gets a little warm. That just pins you as a coward, willing to skirt the law as long as it benefits you, but willing to set horrible precedent for everyone else as soon as you are called out.

Vickers was an bubblegum, but sometimes an bubblegum is what you need. If he had been willing to stand and fight I would have rooted for him, and probably even tossed a few bucks his way for the legal fund. But he was not just an bubblegum, he was an bubblegum and a coward. That is not what we needed, and I hope he enjoys never having his 2A rights again.

 

[Diamondback]

The bit that pisses me off if that he folded. If you are going to challenge the dragon you need to be all in. Take that sh*t to court and make them defend it. I agree that these laws have "constitutional issues", and I even advocate for pushing them to their breaking point (as with braces, bump stocks and binary triggers). But if you are going to push don't fold when it gets a little warm. That just pins you as a coward, willing to skirt the law as long as it benefits you, but willing to set horrible precedent for everyone else as soon as you are called out.

Vickers was an bubblegum, but sometimes an bubblegum is what you need. If he had been willing to stand and fight I would have rooted for him, and probably even tossed a few bucks his way for the legal fund. But he was not just an bubblegum, he was an bubblegum and a coward. That is not what we needed, and I hope he enjoys never having his 2A rights again.

OTOH, they also picked a time when he was weakened by both cancer and depression to make their move. Cancer care in the federal prison system? *roflmao*

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

The bit that pisses me off if that he folded. If you are going to challenge the dragon you need to be all in. Take that sh*t to court and make them defend it. I agree that these laws have "constitutional issues", and I even advocate for pushing them to their breaking point (as with braces, bump stocks and binary triggers). But if you are going to push don't fold when it gets a little warm. That just pins you as a coward, willing to skirt the law as long as it benefits you, but willing to set horrible precedent for everyone else as soon as you are called out.

Vickers was an bubblegum, but sometimes an bubblegum is what you need. If he had been willing to stand and fight I would have rooted for him, and probably even tossed a few bucks his way for the legal fund. But he was not just an bubblegum, he was an bubblegum and a coward. That is not what we needed, and I hope he enjoys never having his 2A rights again.

So odd that he folded. It's almost as if he wasn't pushing back on an unconstitutional law but instead was knowingly acting criminally for his own benefit and realised he had no sound argument to present in court other than "because I wanted to and I didn't think I would get caught"

 

[Alexx1401]

The bit that pisses me off if that he folded. If you are going to challenge the dragon you need to be all in. Take that sh*t to court and make them defend it. I agree that these laws have "constitutional issues", and I even advocate for pushing them to their breaking point (as with braces, bump stocks and binary triggers). But if you are going to push don't fold when it gets a little warm. That just pins you as a coward, willing to skirt the law as long as it benefits you, but willing to set horrible precedent for everyone else as soon as you are called out.

Vickers was an bubblegum, but sometimes an bubblegum is what you need. If he had been willing to stand and fight I would have rooted for him, and probably even tossed a few bucks his way for the legal fund. But he was not just an bubblegum, he was an bubblegum and a coward. That is not what we needed, and I hope he enjoys never having his 2A rights again.

If what he was doing was at least close to how the story is written? Sure sounds like he was just thinking he was "getting over" on the law, not that he was trying to say the law was "wrong". Sure sounds like he was knowingly just committing fraud. Then when caught he decided to cut his losses. It did not sound to me like he was "taking on" the law.
Had a buddy who did blatantly take them on decades ago. He was selling parts to make suppressors and AR Auto Sear's. He got away with it for a long time. Feds started to put heat on him and he did blatantly give them the middle finger. Then he really went off the deep end. Ran into one of those "Gold and Silver , Sovereign Citizen" groups. Decided he was his own lawyer. Feds finally had enough and raided his home. Up until them I had no idea the Fed boys were a bunch of Barney Fife's. They ended up walking away that day due to their own incompetence. They did start the court stuff on having parts. He started with a good lawyer. Soon did not like how the lawyer was doing things and fired him and took over his own case. Went as you would expect. Then when convicted he ran. Did stay on the run for a good while till they finally brought him back to serve time in club Fed. Watching him was like watching a train wreck happening in slow motion. There was just no reaching him anymore. He really deluded himself into believing he was going to win.

 

[Xaevian]

Never eat your own bullshift.