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Just food for thought

Discussion in 'Preparedness & Survival' started by U201491, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    off the wall........

    The average home is a totally undefendable position. I hope all have realized that. Just an added point for thought in the process.
     
  2. PolishedBrass

    PolishedBrass Gresham, Oregon Active Member

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    Thought that through.
    For some time I had several hundred BF of Ironwood. Partly for the ability to build a highly bullet / invader resistant shield area.

    Alas ... even that would have only made one small section of our home slightly defensible.



     
  3. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    Do what Hollyweird does... on an episode of Falling Skies a week or so ago one of the human fighters was wearing a flak jacket made out of squares cut out of "snow tire". They looked like they tried to expose some of the "steel belting" to make it look
    believable I guess. I am guessing in reality this is NOT a good idea. But them I am not a ballistics nor tire expert.

    Brutus Out.
     
  4. Morpheus

    Morpheus Columbia Gorge Anyway, back on the farm.

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    This reminds me of a personal, paranoia line that I can't cross. Finding out how much it would cost to put 1/2" AR500 plate around the inside of my home along the bottom 3 feet of my house...

    But I have thought about it...
     
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  5. GOG

    GOG State of Jefferson Well-Known Member

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    There's too many openings in today's homes for them to be very defensible. I've actually given this a great deal of thought as we live on our BOL. Other than building a dedicated combination blockhouse/home, the best that can be done is to add mass to the walls. I've been thinking of sheathing our place with river rock since we're awash in the stuff. However, firing ports in the walls wouldn't let in much light and drones, rockets and other ordnance would defeat even a rock wall. So realistically, there's other strong points on our property to rely on if worse comes to worst and I pray it doesn't.
     
  6. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    They have Gas, AP in 556, 30 and 50 and the means to turn about anything you put up into swiss cheese. You have to gain oxygen to breath and barriers that withstand at lest the small stuff.
    It is totally non defensible. Just get out and embed in the hills and get anti IR clothing and take a big shovel. Some ghillies are IR resistant for a time. War is no fun anymore. Self defense is very difficult for anyone that wants you "out"
    There are ways to enhance your survival, but your house is not it. Even if you are bunkered in, you still have to breath, so no not defensible.
    The only real effective defense is a rapid overwhelming offense.
     
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  7. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    I feel the need to point out a few things here... first, yes you're right, houses are not fortifications, in fact any determined group can swiss cheese your house with small arms fire, and while they're at it, simply set you on fire. Houses burn, and burn well, usually because they're made of wood, and full of things that are made of wood, fabric and polyester batting.

    The most effective defense, is knowing someone is coming.
     
  8. cookie

    cookie THE SOCIALIST STATE OF KALI - FORNIA Well-Known Member

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    Most houses are like a heavy duty cardboard box.
     
  9. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Look at Waco, how did that work for them.
     
  10. Rusoarmo

    Rusoarmo Seattle Active Member

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    Why bother making your house bullet proof?

    Lighter + $20 of gasoline will be a much bigger fear than getting shot at.
     
  11. Velzey

    Velzey Estacada, Oregon Gunsmith Gunsmith Bronze Vendor Bronze Supporter

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    The Outlaw Josey Wales, I have a home similar!:paranoid:
     
  12. CoastRange57

    CoastRange57 Western Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    And then not letting them get close enough to do any damage. Crossing the 150 meter mark is probably going to be met with extreme offensive action if you do not comply with an order to leave the area. A outpost of some kind tactical in nature is going to be required at least. Some one with the right weapon can create havoc for you from 500 meters away. Be ready to counter that.

    If you let somebody get close enough to burn your home, your primary outside line of defense and your entire protection strategy failed.
     
  13. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Google Insulated Concrete Forms
     
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  14. Trailboss

    Trailboss Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Two kinds of SHTF:

    1. Uncle Sam is really mad at you for any number of reasons and decides to get you. You're finished unless you can find a good spider hole which may delay your inevitable demise.

    2. The world around us continues to deteriorate and roaming bandits, thieves and gangs are the issue. For each of these, they wish to take away your possessions. They don't want to destroy your house, they want what's in it. This may include people (women, children), things, precious metals, drugs, food, water, etc.. For a large organized gang, you are toast if you stay, so move. For smaller group threats, take the fight to them and away from your home. Keep your home looking as non-attractive as possible. Use the home as a resting place, but don't be seen coming and going. Be prepared to deal with any threat who tries to enter the home and to do so drawing as little attention as possible. Do not use your home as a place to fight from. Take the fight elsewhere.
     
  15. knuckle Head

    knuckle Head southeast Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I saw that episode as well.

    I am not a ballistics expert nor am I tire expert. Whether or not a high powered rifle, say a .308 or 30-06 would penetrate one I would guess that in most cases the side walls yes, the tread I am not sure, but I would think so on most automotive tires.

    This would also be depend on layers of belts and types of belts. Take for instances the tire on a large air craft I saw a show a couple of years where they were trying for kicks and grins to penetrate one of the tires inflated and they were ricocheting off.

    Next time I go on trip to a relatives in farm country I will grab a snow tire and try a couple of different calibers just for kicks.
     
  16. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    It'd be nice to pull up some popcorn and a 32 ounce big gulp and watch all the outlaw gangs settle their drug/crime/race feuds.... but alas, can only do that with an airborne RC video camera.

    Brutus Out.
     
  17. knuckle Head

    knuckle Head southeast Well-Known Member

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    I general I agree most house are very vulnerable, especially if our tyrannical gooberment decides a person is no longer desirable.

    But there are measures to keep the aver A hole out, concrete walls with an exterior coating on pick up truck bed liner LINE-X Sprayon Bedliners, Protective Coatings, Truck Bed Coating, Floor Coating, Industrial Flooring

    Insulated steel doors with a steel frame, and extra lock bars. The doors may not a round but I think it would slow down a lot of calibers, interested to see what people come with here.

    Log home and tinder boxes but the logs will keep out most bullets and thieves,

    Nothing is totally bulletproof on bullet resistant
     
  18. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    For the most part, rubber bags or tires stuffed with gravel do a very good job of preventing bullets from penetrating, however, you don't want to build a house from it. First, tires smell, second, tires burn so you will need to gunnite them with concrete. second, it's a very labor intensive process, I helped set up a shoot house from these materials, because 3-6" of gravel will defeat even 50 cal AP. However the bigger problem is, it makes a bad house, it's not especially strong structurally. The next best thing I can think of is hesco bastions, these things will stop even RPGs, however it's best if you have heavy equipment to set them up.
     
  19. CoastRange57

    CoastRange57 Western Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Most people are relating to the house / home as some kind of building they are going to sleep in, live in, eat in and yet somehow have it all set up to take incoming fire from damn near anything you can think of.

    In a true SHTF, you house would become merely one aspect of your whole total area. The role of the "house" building would change, from a central be there all the time thing, to a more modified use. Unless you are truly all set up in that house to stand off what you perceive to be coming at you, then you are getting shredded real fast. I for one reject the idea of a house as a suitable defensive structure if under attack from small arms or other means. And is a true SHTF, if you have any kind of setup at all, you are going to HAVE to have manned outposts 24/7. There has to be one to two people on the look out at all times, or you are getting baked the first night. you simply cannot let nefarious people get that close to your primary defense area.

    You would have to make sure you had suitable perimeter defense / warning to make sure that no threat got within 200 meters hopefully. And that you have suitable firepower to defeat the threat at that distance in a short time. This is likely going to be from some type of fortified position (s) away from the structure. You can build these from a lot of different materials. Earthen materials, concrete block, best is concrete that has been wrecked out of a drive way. Forget the stacking concrete building type blocks, they are easily penetrated. Having an elevated fortified position would also go a long ways to increasing the distance you can actively see and target.

    If a threat is nigh, there needs to be a fortified position for all non combatants/ defenders to retreat too, as well as fall back positions for the outpost fortifications. A house would just basically become a mess hall / possible sleeping/ storage area if it can be effectively defended.

    As far as tire threads go, no different than different chest plates in your kevlar. Thicker will stop more, but I think you get up in the .300 - .308 range, it is going through up to a certain distance. At least a .22 went through a tire tread on my Dads 67 Falcon wagon from about 80 yards away, and flattened it real quick. Had a lot of explaining to do when the old man found the bullet in the tire when he took it in.
     
  20. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    I've been told the new I-5 military buildings are 8 inch core ICF.. seems they think that's plenty