Is there a tougher background check?

moroza · Dec 29, 2021

Apart from costing more and taking longer, is the background check required for Class 3 guns any different - stricter on pass/fail criteria, or more thorough - from normal guns? Is there any other federal background check that could be used to vet a potential buyer, and if so, under what circumstances can it be used?

3MTA3 · Dec 29, 2021

The background check is done by the FBI. It is no simple NICS pass or fail, and they check nation wide. That's why it takes so long. Unless there is something in your background like a felony you should be good.

Member 34319 · Dec 29, 2021

Huh? Can you elaborate on the question some?

The NFA check is performed by the FBI. Which I imagine isn't really any different than the National Instacheck. The same information is likely already easily available on you.

It takes longer because they want it too. Not because it needs to.

Some of it might be because they still use, at least up until very recently, snail mail for everything. Paper and snail mail, combined with a small office of a small amount of government employees dedicated to the task of processing the 100,000s of applications each year. Yep, it will be a while.

It's like the DMV, 4 employees and 100 people in queue. Get a seat and a cup of coffee or two, it's gonna be a minute.

oremike · Dec 29, 2021

I think the background check is the same but the permitting is what takes so long.

moroza · Dec 29, 2021

Reno said:
Huh? Can you elaborate on the question some?

The NFA check is performed by the FBI. Which I imagine isn't really any different than the National Instacheck. The same information is likely already easily available on you.

It takes longer because they want it too. Not because it needs to.

Some of it might be because they still use, at least up until very recently, snail mail for everything. Paper and snail mail, combined with a small office of a small amount of government employees dedicated to the task of processing the 100,000s of applications each year. Yep, it will be a while.

It's like the DMV, 4 employees and 100 people in queue. Get a seat and a cup of coffee or two, it's gonna be a minute.

NFA checks go through the Feckless Bedwetters Institution, huh, not the Bureau of All Things Fun (and Exciting)? I once looked into the employment process for the former, and got the impression they could and would dig up and consider far more and far longer back than a simple criminal record.

The background to this question is my ongoing development of a gun accessory that, while legal in most states, would be one I would not feel comfortable, ethically, making freely available to just anyone with the coin. I was wondering if there's a way to voluntarily (on my part) have extra restrictions imposed and enforced by the feds on its purchase and possession, along the lines of Class 3 or stricter. Lack of criminal history isn't enough, in my view. Case in point: the previous occupant of my apartment had no criminal record - at least, no felonies - until sheriffs came to evict him when he tried to take over the property by armed force, got shot at by his stolen guns (from a dead guy, under suspicious circumstances), then searched his stuff and left with a van load of things I was not privy to. Among the remains that were my problem to clear out of there were barrels of various solvents, a battering ram (brand name "Dynamic Entry"), several bigass boltcutters, blueprints to bunkers, a library of books and various media strongly suggesting a more than academic interest in white supremacist groups, race wars, and various violent crime. A few months later it turned out that the FBI and possibly DEA had him under surveillance for some time prior. I don't want people like that having any more capability to hurt people than they already do.

3MTA3 · Dec 29, 2021

moroza said:
NFA checks go through the Feckless Bedwetters Institution, huh, not the Bureau of All Things Fun (and Exciting)? I once looked into the employment process for the former, and got the impression they could and would dig up and consider far more and far longer back than a simple criminal record.

The background to this question is my ongoing development of a gun accessory that, while legal in most states, would be one I would not feel comfortable, ethically, making freely available to just anyone with the coin. I was wondering if there's a way to voluntarily (on my part) have extra restrictions imposed and enforced by the feds on its purchase and possession, along the lines of Class 3 or stricter. Lack of criminal history isn't enough, in my view. Case in point: the previous occupant of my apartment had no criminal record - at least, no felonies - until sheriffs came to evict him when he tried to take over the property by armed force, got shot at by his stolen guns (from a dead guy, under suspicious circumstances), then searched his stuff and left with a van load of things I was not privy to. Among the remains that were my problem to clear out of there were barrels of various solvents, a battering ram (brand name "Dynamic Entry"), several bigass boltcutters, blueprints to bunkers, a library of books and various media strongly suggesting a more than academic interest in white supremacist groups, race wars, and various violent crime. A few months later it turned out that the FBI and possibly DEA had him under surveillance for some time prior. I don't want people like that having any more capability to hurt people than they already do.

Sounds like you are in favor of restricting rights based not on what they have done, but what they might do. Just as well arrest and jail everybody since we all have the potential to commit a crime.

Do you know how many legally transferred machine guns have been used in the commission of a crime? Only one to my knowledge, and that was done by a Fed.

Have Legally Owned Automatic Weapons Been Used in Crime?

Did you know, most homicides involving firearms usually involve large-caliber revolvers? Even in gang-related incidents, use of automatic weapons are rare.

gunmagwarehouse.com

Member 34319 · Dec 29, 2021

moroza said:
NFA checks go through the Feckless Bedwetters Institution, huh, not the Bureau of All Things Fun (and Exciting)? I once looked into the employment process for the former, and got the impression they could and would dig up and consider far more and far longer back than a simple criminal record.

The background to this question is my ongoing development of a gun accessory that, while legal in most states, would be one I would not feel comfortable, ethically, making freely available to just anyone with the coin. I was wondering if there's a way to voluntarily (on my part) have extra restrictions imposed and enforced by the feds on its purchase and possession, along the lines of Class 3 or stricter. Lack of criminal history isn't enough, in my view. Case in point: the previous occupant of my apartment had no criminal record - at least, no felonies - until sheriffs came to evict him when he tried to take over the property by armed force, got shot at by his stolen guns (from a dead guy, under suspicious circumstances), then searched his stuff and left with a van load of things I was not privy to. Among the remains that were my problem to clear out of there were barrels of various solvents, a battering ram (brand name "Dynamic Entry"), several bigass boltcutters, blueprints to bunkers, a library of books and various media strongly suggesting a more than academic interest in white supremacist groups, race wars, and various violent crime. A few months later it turned out that the FBI and possibly DEA had him under surveillance for some time prior. I don't want people like that having any more capability to hurt people than they already do.

Lol, ok dude. Good luck with your venture.

moroza · Dec 29, 2021

I'm in favor of restricting rights of someone's seriously and repeatedly demonstrated inclinations to violate others' rights, in addition to direct proof of smaller-scale crimes, and significant evidence of having committed bigger ones in the past and gotten away with it. Similarly to how I support free political speech up to and not including the advocacy of a legal and political system, such as Sharia law, that would undo the very rights that allowed it to gain traction.

The statistic you quote is exactly what I had in mind - if one had to jump through the same hoops as for a legal MG, hopefully the likelihood of criminal use will be similarly near nil. It just offends me that money is the obstacle as much or more than effort or merit. The Hughes Amendment, IMO, is deeply flawed no matter where one stands on gun control.

Member 34319 · Dec 29, 2021

This week on the minority report…

Nosferatu · Dec 29, 2021

moroza said:
NFA checks go through the Feckless Bedwetters Institution, huh, not the Bureau of All Things Fun (and Exciting)? I once looked into the employment process for the former, and got the impression they could and would dig up and consider far more and far longer back than a simple criminal record.

The background to this question is my ongoing development of a gun accessory that, while legal in most states, would be one I would not feel comfortable, ethically, making freely available to just anyone with the coin. I was wondering if there's a way to voluntarily (on my part) have extra restrictions imposed and enforced by the feds on its purchase and possession, along the lines of Class 3 or stricter. Lack of criminal history isn't enough, in my view. Case in point: the previous occupant of my apartment had no criminal record - at least, no felonies - until sheriffs came to evict him when he tried to take over the property by armed force, got shot at by his stolen guns (from a dead guy, under suspicious circumstances), then searched his stuff and left with a van load of things I was not privy to. Among the remains that were my problem to clear out of there were barrels of various solvents, a battering ram (brand name "Dynamic Entry"), several bigass boltcutters, blueprints to bunkers, a library of books and various media strongly suggesting a more than academic interest in white supremacist groups, race wars, and various violent crime. A few months later it turned out that the FBI and possibly DEA had him under surveillance for some time prior. I don't want people like that having any more capability to hurt people than they already do.

I bet he put mayonnaise on his fries too.

I'm not for restricting ANYONE'S rights until after they are convicted of a crime that deems such restrictions. Sorry, can't get behind your pre-cog elitist ideas here, no matter how wonderful you think your gun accessory is.

If you don't like freedom and the free market, might be best to just not participate in it.

Hueco · Dec 29, 2021

Reno said:
It's like the DMV, 4 employees and 100 people in queue. Get a seat and a cup of coffee or two, it's gonna be a minute.

Dude, I must have drank a keg of coffee so far waiting for my NFA check.

moroza · Dec 29, 2021

Nosferatu said:
If you don't like freedom and the free market, might be best to just not participate in it.

Freedom of the market includes the freedom to refuse to sell to anyone I don't like for any reason, such as a penchant for spouting knee-jerk blanket statements and buzzwords. But I will defend your freedom to say them anyway. Thanks for playing.

Actually, that alone wouldn't earn a denial in my book. If you're on this subforum, especially if you like AKs, I'm betting high that you'll probably want one of these toys ifnwhen it becomes available. I would just want some articulable cause to believe that it won't be misused.

I didn't come here expecting my position to be popular, I came here to get a factual answer to a factual question, and to glean some familiarity with the Class 3 buying process in general. Can we keep it to that?

40Garand · Dec 29, 2021

moroza said:
Freedom of the market includes the freedom to refuse to sell to anyone I don't like for any reason, such as a penchant for spouting knee-jerk blanket statements and buzzwords.

moroza said:
NFA checks go through the Feckless Bedwetters Institution, huh, not the Bureau of All Things Fun (and Exciting)?

No problem contorting names of the FBI and the ATF but you have a problem with other people using buzzwords? You have any cute names for Hillary and Trump while you're here ?

moroza · Dec 29, 2021

No problem with humor, yes problem with dragging politics into it. As for the initialisms, I'm not sure it counts as a buzzword if it's original... They aren't? Have you heard them before?

Stomper · Dec 29, 2021

Is it one of them shoulder things that pops up or a new fangled barrel shroud to make a firearm more dangerous than before?

moroza · Dec 29, 2021

I'll announce it when the time is right. It's at least as likely to go down well with yall as I am to receive more flak for the irrelevant tangent of explaining why I asked the question I did.

40Garand · Dec 29, 2021

moroza said:
No problem with humor, yes problem with dragging politics into it. As for the initialisms, I'm not sure it counts as a buzzword if it's original... They aren't? Have you heard them before?

Well you came in here looking for input while typing your intentions of limiting your customer base on a firearm related product. I don't recall Eddie Murphy or Robin Williams ever walking on stage and taking a steamy dump before cracking a joke.

Nosferatu · Dec 29, 2021

moroza said:
Freedom of the market includes the freedom to refuse to sell to anyone I don't like for any reason, such as a penchant for spouting knee-jerk blanket statements and buzzwords. But I will defend your freedom to say them anyway. Thanks for playing.

You're right. You can absolutely not sell it to anyone you don't want to. I don't believe I insinuated otherwise.

moroza said:
Actually, that alone wouldn't earn a denial in my book. If you're on this subforum, especially if you like AKs, I'm betting high that you'll probably want one of these toys ifnwhen it becomes available. I would just want some articulable cause to believe that it won't be misused.

That's just more nose in the air nonsense. Once your personal politics get out, I don't think you'll get many takers. Good luck to you. I'm sure I'll lose sleep not making your "book".

moroza said:
I didn't come here expecting my position to be popular, I came here to get a factual answer to a factual question, and to glean some familiarity with the Class 3 buying process in general. Can we keep it to that?

You put it out there, people are free to discuss it in any matter they like, whether you like it or not. You got your factual answer. Now we're free to rip you apart for your elitist viewpoint, but in a most friendly way!

Again, good luck.

billdeserthills · Dec 29, 2021

Nosferatu said:
I bet he put mayonnaise on his fries too.

I'm not for restricting ANYONE'S rights until after they are convicted of a crime that deems such restrictions. Sorry, can't get behind your pre-cog elitist ideas here, no matter how wonderful you think your gun accessory is.

If you don't like freedom and the free market, might be best to just not participate in it.

Speaking of pre-cog, China now has an AI Prosecutor