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Info on purchasing gun after being in Mental Hospital.

Discussion in 'Firearm Laws & Legal' started by 01rednavigator, Feb 29, 2016.

  1. 01rednavigator

    01rednavigator salem Active Member

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    This is not one of those questions where you are asking for a friend but you are really asking for yourself, I am really asking this for a friend.

    So my Friend wants to buy a hand gun for home defense but their is one problem. He voluntarily admitted himself to the State Hospital.

    This happened I would say well over 8 years ago or more. He got injured and was out of work, the injury was worse than he thought so he ended up not being able to go back to work and had to get on disability. He was a very active person, he loved to do yard work, work on his car, fishing, going out with friends ect and all this stopped with this injury.

    He got very depressed about not being able to work anymore and do the things he loved. He was trapped at home and not able to see his friends ect, I do not know the full story as he does not like to talk about but he either took a bunch of pills or was going to and ended up voluntarily putting himself in the Hospital.

    They held him for two or three days and evaluated him and I guess from seeing all the crazy people and stuff it snapped him out of the depression. They determined he was not a danger to himself or others and released him.

    He is perfectly fine know and has been since he got out of the hospital, he got back to being active going out with friends ect and has not had any problems what so ever.

    Would he be able to purchase a handgun since he voluntarily committed himself?

    I would trust him with my life and my families lives.
     
  2. v0lcom13sn0w

    v0lcom13sn0w Keizer, or Well-Known Member

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    only way to own gun legally in oregon(now) is to obtain it from an immediate family member, a trust(will) or having a background check. i'd start there.

    Not a lawyer so i may not be 100% accurate but from my understanding this is how we were TOLD what we HAVE to do to not break the emergency law.
     
  3. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Mar 1, 2016
  4. jim97701

    jim97701 Bend Well-Known Member

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    After reading the back of the 4473 I'd say he should be good to go. If I were him I'd fill out the form with a no in section f and proceed as normal. He wasn't committed by a court or deemed dangerous or incompetent. They should have no reason to deny him.
     
  5. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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    Good to go.

    Was not found defective by a court or a jury of peers or out there by the state.

    I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
     
    jim97701 likes this.
  6. DieselScout

    DieselScout S Clackamas County Well-Known Member

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    In all honesty, you're going to be banking on term "committed" or does committed imply it was done by another party and not voluntary. In this document on the OSP website, the terminology used is "admitted" which to me seems to cover more than "committed". If he checked "NO" on the 4473 and then was later found not to be able to own a firearm he could be cited for lying on the form. Since OSP is who makes that determination, it maybe worth calling the challenge line 503-373-1808 and leaving them a message, then speak with who calls you back.

    I understand what's trying to be done here, keep firearms out of crazy people hands. But here's a guy who stepped up, realized he needed helped, got it and moved on. He's being punished for it. We really need a huge change to our mental health care system.
     
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  7. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    The terms are very well defined in ORS 166.470, which is the citation on that line of the OSP checklist, or whatever it is they call it. The OSP paper leads you to believe that any commitment to a mental institution is grounds for denial, but according to 166.470, there clearly must be court intervention.

    In any case, you are not bound by a piece of paper that OSP uses as a checklist. You are only bound by law and the paper you fill out and sign. It's up to the individual as to who they want to call, and how much they want to see the agencies make up stories. Guaranteed that if you call OSP, it's a crap shoot as to what answer you'll get at any hour, on any day, or speaking with any different person. They are not lawyers and only quote the instructions they have been given, not the law.

    Form 4473 is also very specific about court adjudication and determinations. Since that is the form you fill out, then that's the one I would be concerned with. You are not lying if there was no court determination that you could not possess a firearm.

    No - I'm not a lawyer, just a citizen that sees red when agencies decide to make their own laws.
     
    308, Slobray, Dyjital and 2 others like this.
  8. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Like you, I read (and comprehend) what's written in black & white, but see red when they go beyond that!
     
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  9. kilimanjaro

    kilimanjaro Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    Getting legal advice from us folks here is not the best thing to do, you need to pony up a few bucks and see an attorney who knows something about this issue and retain him. He'll look at the situation and the law and give you written advice and you can take it from there.

    Winging it is not smart.
     
    bnsaibum likes this.
  10. jim97701

    jim97701 Bend Well-Known Member

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    It certainly would not be winging it, it would be well within what the 4473 says is acceptable. What you suggest is paying for legal council because he is guilty until proven Innocent?
     
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  11. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    No legal advice here but the way Washington and Oregon are nowadays I would bet "IF" he used a gun for defense he would know what it costs for legal advice....lots of it
    I would bet they would try to burn him down good
    Heck they are trying to make it so some Viet Nam vets can't have guns cause they came in for PTSD? years ago
     
    kilimanjaro likes this.
  12. kilimanjaro

    kilimanjaro Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm suggesting that 'winging it', meaning taking our advice as to what is acceptable on the 4473 form, is not smart. You are not a lawyer, I'm not a lawyer, and the OP could seriously screw up the rest of his life by doing what someone on the forum says is gospel. Are you going to pay his legal bills if your advice is wrong?

    Fill out the 4473, check the 'No' box, and then get denied because of some legal 'I' not dotted or 'T' crossed, such as a release or some such thing that should have been filed, and end up committing a felony that will end your gun rights forever is not something the OP wants to have happen. He may be very well correct that he was never 'committed', but someone filed a report about his mental health care and that may have worked it's way into the federal NICS system or the Oregon OSP database, whether it should have or not.

    The OP could be the equivalent of 'guilty until proven innocent', we do not know if he is truly innocent or guilty, he's better off spending a few hundred bucks checking things out first than being sorry later. If you object to spending for a couple hours of legal time, just how much legal time will he have to pay for if something is amiss?

    Last month I watched a buddy of mine get sent to jail for a term, he thought an old pot charge was dismissed, and winged it. Turned out it wasn't dismissed, just waived or something, and he needed to get it expunged. He didn't do that, and became a felon in possession of firearms as a result. Now he's in jail and his gun collection is gone, and his legal bill was over $100,000. Not spending a few hundred on legal counsel to start with cost him pretty dearly.
     
    Joe13 likes this.
  13. Darkman1692

    Darkman1692 King county Member

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    When I was a teenager I voluntarily went into a mental health facility. Once I became of age AND was healthy enough to own/buy firearms responsibility I had the same concern. From my understanding after calling the Washington state attorney's office and reading all of the ATF documentation I could find on the issue is that if you were a self admit patient with a stay of less than 14 days total your'e g2g. If you spent longer than 14 days or where court ordered than you must go through a legal process to have your rights restored.
     
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  14. broncman

    broncman E. of Portland yet to close! Quality Control!

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    On a side note seems felons only get a slap on the wrist(if that) for trying so what does it hurt to try!
    So, tell friend to go try to purchase a firearm and see what happens! Might get embarrassed with a denial but what does that hurt!
     
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  15. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    As is my advise with most other things:

    Don't ask, don't tell.

    Technically you have read possible red flags but your buddy knows squat. If he reads the form and feels the best answer is NO then there shouldn't be an issue.

    The one prior felon I know was TOLD they were not able to own or hold firearms anymore (unless he tries to go back and get it over ruled, but he isn't a shooter so couldn't care less).

    If your buddy has a clean record (unlike the poor bastage above with a pot conviction) and this is his ONLY concern, then I wouldn't give it a second thought.




    If he wants to CC then that might be different but I doubt it... Speaking of which, have him go get his CHL first, that's cheaper then a lawyers opinion and he can then honestly say he has passed a federal background check and won't have to wait the hold times for pistols when he does go to buy one and it solves a lot of issues with transportation of handguns.

    (Btw, my daughter is of an age that her potential boyfriends will be required by me to get a CHL before they have even a chance at my blessing - I don't care if they are latte loving hipsters or (gawd forbid) someone that resembles me:eek::p:confused:; they can hate guns and never own one if that's thier choice but they will pay the $60 for a BGC and get printed if they want to date my girl)
     
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  16. Freefallen

    Freefallen Here Member

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    No one can "voluntarily" admit to the State Hospital. OARs in Oregon require a person to go through a Civil Commitment process and be court ordered to their facility. It is possible that a person with private insurance can voluntarily admit to a psychiatric unit, such as Cedar Hills or Salem Hospital Psych Unit.

    If he truly was admitted to Oregon State Psychiatric Hospital he will probably have issues. As others have said, It would be best to seek advice of counsel as lying on the form also has its own issues.
     
    kilimanjaro likes this.
  17. 01rednavigator

    01rednavigator salem Active Member

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    I do not believe he was in the State Hospital if this is what you say. I was just assuming he was, but he did admit himself so it was probably just at the hospital.
     
  18. duldej

    duldej Portland Member

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    The above is correct, at least in terms of Federal law. In California they have additional restrictions, eg. WIC 5150, etc.. I am not sure about Oregon.

    And regarding the Form 4473, box 11)f, as some of you mentioned, the answer your friend would check is definitely, and veridically, "no," not because he voluntarily admitted himself, but because he was not committed.

    FYI: A person could conceivably have once been involuntarily admitted, ie. have been brought in by police, strapped to a gurney, and admitted by a hospital, and still truthfully check "no." Only in the case of an adjudication would there be a problem.
     
  19. Nick Burkhardt

    Nick Burkhardt NE Oregon Well-Known Member

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    We have all heard the stories about OSP delaying someone for months over a 20+ year old traffic violation or court case in another state. How about have him try a long gun purchase in a NICS only State like Washington or Idaho so at least he will have a home defense weapon if OSP decides to perpetually delay him?
     
    STUKA likes this.
  20. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs South Willamette Valley Oregon Well-Known Member

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    If you yourself are not sure of what the circumstances are for your friend, it is really difficult for anyone to give you a sound opinion. You originally stated that he was in the State hospital. Now you say that you don't know what hospital it was.
     
    cascadianliberty2012 likes this.