In this mornings Columbian...

[deen_ad]

there's an article titled "Carrying guns is OK in county parks" by Stephanie Rice ([email protected])

Isn't it nice to know that Clark County is finally bringing it's laws into line with what the State preemption law (RCW 9.41.290) already says? As near as I can figure out the preemption law was passed in 1983.

Now they need to remove the signs at the Sheriffs office as it violates the preemption law AND RCW 9.41.300
"(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:

(a) The restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness, or (iii) otherwise confined pursuant to an order of a court, except an order under chapter 13.32A or 13.34 RCW. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;"

The operative part is: "Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;"

8 US Presidents have been NRA members
80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!!

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The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
Arms Collectors of South West Washington member

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[Jerry]

I got into a "discussion" with a Vancouver PD detective a while back at the barbershop about this very topic. He insisted that it was illegal to carry a firearm in a city or county park whether concealed or not. He didn't know what "pre-emption" meant as it applies to Chpt 9.41 RCW. I offered to give him the copy of the RCW that I keep in my truck. He declined. Hopefully he looked it up on his own.

 

[deen_ad]

I got into a "discussion" with a Vancouver PD detective a while back at the barbershop about this very topic. He insisted that it was illegal to carry a firearm in a city or county park whether concealed or not. He didn't know what "pre-emption" meant as it applies to Chpt 9.41 RCW. I offered to give him the copy of the RCW that I keep in my truck. He declined. Hopefully he looked it up on his own.

Just goes to show you that the average "beat cop" doesn't know the law and trying to educate them is usually not going to work!! I've carried into county parks, even asked one the deputies there about it. He said it was the law and if he saw anyone with a gun they would be "taken down". Glad I had hidden my .45 in the cooler before I went to talk to him!! But you could win a very sizable award for false arrest!!

8 former US Presidents have been NRA Members
80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
South West Washington Arms Collector member

 

[kkil004]

In my experience it's supervisors who don't know the law. A good officer will keep up to date with changes in the law by reading the "Law Enforcement Digest" and other legal updates available online. Maybe this guy got lazy once he got off the street... detectives aren't "beat cops". Heck, they don't even have 'beats' anymore except maybe in NYC...

 

[deen_ad]

In my experience it's supervisors who don't know the law. A good officer will keep up to date with changes in the law by reading the "Law Enforcement Digest" and other legal updates available online. Maybe this guy got lazy once he got off the street... detectives aren't "beat cops". Heck, they don't even have 'beats' anymore except maybe in NYC...

By "beat cops" I meant the officers out actually in the field, enforcing the laws. You know, the ones that really need to know what is what!

 

[deen_ad]

"The commissioners were asked to bring the code into compliance with state law. And so they did. I understand some people know the state law. Other people do not, and I have heard from people today who are outraged that people can carry guns in parks.

So not everyone is familiar with the state's open carry law.

Stephanie Rice"

As near as I can see the preemption law was passed in 1983 so it took the County some 27 YEARS to come into compliance with the state law?

Now they need to remove the sign at the Sheriff's office for the same reason. The signs are null and void due to RCW 9.41.300.


8 former US Presidents have been NRA Members
80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
South West Washington Arms Collector member

 

[Artilleryman]

I saw the story katu news did on the subject at 6 tonight. Perhaps "story" is an overstatement- it was thinly disguised editorial / hatchet job. joe english's sneering tone and facial expressions, plus the numerous ridiculous comments were sickening. especially their cheap attempt at supposedly showing the viewpoints of 'gun owners' with an old lady who was as convincing as hilary clinton was during the democrat primary campaigns speaking about how she fondly remembers deer hunting with here grandfather.

 

[svxr8dr]

I wrote to Clark County Deputy Prosecutor Chris Horne for claification about prohibiting weapons at county-owned facilities, specifically the Sleep Country Amphitheater.

His response is below for anyone interested:

"Any property owner who owns land may exclude weapons from their property. You can in you house, a business may on its premises. Similarly, the county can exclude firearms, to the extent we own property like any other property owner.

The key is that the county owns land in different capacities. In our governmental capacity we own property such as parks and may not restrict firearms. The county can also own land separate from its governmental role. It is in that context that the court has said that we may exclude as any other owner."

 

[Jerry]

I wrote to Clark County Deputy Prosecutor Chris Horne for claification about prohibiting weapons at county-owned facilities, specifically the Sleep Country Amphitheater.

His response is below for anyone interested:

"Any property owner who owns land may exclude weapons from their property. You can in you house, a business may on its premises. Similarly, the county can exclude firearms, to the extent we own property like any other property owner.

The key is that the county owns land in different capacities. In our governmental capacity we own property such as parks and may not restrict firearms. The county can also own land separate from its governmental role. It is in that context that the court has said that we may exclude as any other owner."

See if you can get a citation from Chris for the court case that supports his claim regarding the county as a property owner.

 

[svxr8dr]

I sent a polite reply this morning asking just such a thing

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I got into a "discussion" with a Vancouver PD detective a while back at the barbershop about this very topic. He insisted that it was illegal to carry a firearm in a city or county park whether concealed or not. He didn't know what "pre-emption" meant as it applies to Chpt 9.41 RCW. I offered to give him the copy of the RCW that I keep in my truck. He declined. Hopefully he looked it up on his own.

Refusing to take that indicates to me that he does not care about the actual laws he is supposed to be enforcing, vs his fantasies as to what they actually are.. maybe he needs a career change

 

[Blitzkrieg]

In my experience it's supervisors who don't know the law. A good officer will keep up to date with changes in the law by reading the "Law Enforcement Digest" and other legal updates available online. Maybe this guy got lazy once he got off the street... detectives aren't "beat cops". Heck, they don't even have 'beats' anymore except maybe in NYC...

I would think detectives would need to know the law at least as well as average street-patrol cops

 

[Blitzkrieg]

"The commissioners were asked to bring the code into compliance with state law. And so they did. I understand some people know the state law. Other people do not, and I have heard from people today who are outraged that people can carry guns in parks.

Yes because the basic civil right to self defense disappears at the magic boundary set by some local municipality

We all know that creeps, rapists, perverts, robbers and drug dealers steer far from these "gun safe zones", right? right? (hears echoes..)

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I wrote to Clark County Deputy Prosecutor Chris Horne for claification about prohibiting weapons at county-owned facilities, specifically the Sleep Country Amphitheater.

His response is below for anyone interested:

"Any property owner who owns land may exclude weapons from their property. You can in you house, a business may on its premises. Similarly, the county can exclude firearms, to the extent we own property like any other property owner.

The key is that the county owns land in different capacities. In our governmental capacity we own property such as parks and may not restrict firearms. The county can also own land separate from its governmental role. It is in that context that the court has said that we may exclude as any other owner."

Does this guy ever take off his powdered wig and get off his high horse?

 

[mjbskwim]

I wrote to Clark County Deputy Prosecutor Chris Horne for claification about prohibiting weapons at county-owned facilities, specifically the Sleep Country Amphitheater.

His response is below for anyone interested:

"Any property owner who owns land may exclude weapons from their property. You can in you house, a business may on its premises. Similarly, the county can exclude firearms, to the extent we own property like any other property owner.

The key is that the county owns land in different capacities. In our governmental capacity we own property such as parks and may not restrict firearms. The county can also own land separate from its governmental role. It is in that context that the court has said that we may exclude as any other owner."

OKAAAYYY

Now who is enforcing this rule? Is it an "on duty" LEO? Then it is public property,right?
Or is it the same officer hired privately by the county and off duty?

Seems if they are using on duty cops,then they are using public moneys for security on what they are trying to call private ownership by the county.......???

Just doesn't smell right,as WE,THE PUBLIC, own the county entities.

 

[deen_ad]

I wrote to Clark County Deputy Prosecutor Chris Horne for claification about prohibiting weapons at county-owned facilities, specifically the Sleep Country Amphitheater.

His response is below for anyone interested:

"Any property owner who owns land may exclude weapons from their property. You can in you house, a business may on its premises. Similarly, the county can exclude firearms, to the extent we own property like any other property owner.

The key is that the county owns land in different capacities. In our governmental capacity we own property such as parks and may not restrict firearms. The county can also own land separate from its governmental role. It is in that context that the court has said that we may exclude as any other owner."

The County ca exclude weapons from the Amphitheater IF it meets the criteria set forth in 9.41.300. And one of the exemptions is if you have a CPL.

(2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:

(a) Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. Such laws and ordinances shall not abridge the right of the individual guaranteed by Article I, section 24 of the state Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or others; and

(b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

(i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

(ii) Any showing, demonstration, or lecture involving the exhibition of firearms.


But they CAN'T exclude guns from the Sheriff's office!!

Now they need to remove the signs at the Sheriffs office as it violates the preemption law AND RCW 9.41.300

"(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:

(a) The restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness, or (iii) otherwise confined pursuant to an order of a court, except an order under chapter 13.32A or 13.34 RCW. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;"

The operative part is: "Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;"

8 former US Presidents have been NRA Members
80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
South West Washington Arms Collector member

 

[svxr8dr]

Well, no follow up response received. I guess being part of the unwashed masses of Clark County, I dont have enough pull.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Well, no follow up response received. I guess being part of the unwashed masses of Clark County, I dont have enough pull.

Get organized and publicly protest this guy.. and get a group together to toss him out (by working for the opposition) if he's elected, or to put pressure on whoever appointed him. I'm 90 minutes North of you and may be able to show up for a protest, and maybe could bring posse members/associates if it's on a compatible day. Been there, done this before

He won't care if we complain on here but he will care if his opposition gets new, effective campaign workers

 

[svxr8dr]

After three attempts for clarification from Attorney Chris Horne, regarding legal carry concealed at the Sleep Country Amphitheater. He finally emailed back.

My email:
"Mr. Horne,

Can you clarify for me please, as it appears that under circumstances described defining "Outdoor Musical Festival", that the Sleepcountry Amphitheater rarely fits the definition and as such all licensed concealed carry holders can enter the grounds of the Amphitheater while armed? Do you agree or disagree?

Thanks for your time,

His email response:

"Disagree."

 

[joeroket]

After three attempts for clarification from Attorney Chris Horne, regarding legal carry concealed at the Sleep Country Amphitheater. He finally emailed back.

My email:
"Mr. Horne,

Can you clarify for me please, as it appears that under circumstances described defining "Outdoor Musical Festival", that the Sleepcountry Amphitheater rarely fits the definition and as such all licensed concealed carry holders can enter the grounds of the Amphitheater while armed? Do you agree or disagree?

Thanks for your time,

His email response:

"Disagree."

He disagrees because of the PNSPA v. Sequim case and Estes v. Vashon Fire District cases. In both cases he is interpreting them wrong. Neither had to do with a blanket restriction in publicly accessible areas. Send him a copy of the AG opinion 2008 no. 8 and ask him again to restate his opinion.