Improving precision

[Koda]

So I still consider myself "fairly new" to handloading but Ive made progress and met minimum goals for this year, I have 3 established recipes ...who hoo. Im very pleased with my 2 recipes for my deer rifle, but its a lever gun and Im not expecting precision just accuracy and seem to average 1.5 MOA with a good hard hitting safe velocity.

The recipe for my 223 meets my "minimum" expectations, its accurate but not what I was hoping for especially with a new barrel Im averaging about 1.8 MOA from a benchrest. I know I can shoot better. Id like to see a maximum of 1moa.
Before I continue let me explain my 223 goal here, is only to learn. Im a big game hunter and have better rilfes to hunt with and have no interest in hunting with the AR15. But 223 brass and components are cheap and available (except primers... I got lucky on a few...) and im using it to learn to handload, deer hunting loads for accuracy. Remembering this will help the discussion especially when I list my bullet choice, although its quite possible an AR15 is not the best choice to learn to handload for precision with hunting bullets and Im open to hearing that. Its still fun to shoot the thing (side note: I did try some 55g FMJ and got a really distinct sub moa accuracy node in the ladder test)


Im looking for general advice on how to improve precision? Is it my recipe, is it the rifle, or is it me, or is a combination of everything?


Notes:
Rifle: PSA 223 Wylde 18" / 1:7 twist upper with a Vortex Strike Eagle LPVO. (not the best scope for precision IMO)
Handload: Barnes 55g TTSX with 26.2g A2520 powder. CBTO: 1.858" designed to fit any AR magazine (it runs about 2.250" +/- .005" COAL)
50 yard zero.....



Photos show targets at 50, 100 and 200 yds. ("FC21(6x)" stands for the brass headstamp and the times fired)

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[Koda]

One question I have is would sorting my bullets and brass by weight help?

Also, my ES isnt the best, about 50fps. Im not certain how to lower that... I cant change primers but I do have some different powder to try.

 

[DizzyJ]

Main things that affect accuracy or the potential thereof:
High quality barrel.
High quality projectiles.
Match the bullet to the twist.
Use a well known accurate powder for the caliber.

The rest is usually a matter of tweaking the load as long as everything else is decent quality and in spec.

I've got an 18" SPR I built that holds pretty consistent 1/3 moa groups if I do my part.

Also important is to make sure everything is locked down tight (scope, base, rings, etc).

 

[Dr Prepper]

I would also add good brass and a good solid trigger.

Sorting brass and bullets won't hurt thats for sure, it will only stand to improve it that's for certain.

But I would try to steer you to a smarter method:
One thing to consider is do you want to sort your brass every time you shoot and clean it? I'll help you.. The answer is no! So just buy premium brass (yes its expensive but it pays off.) Lapua or alpha brass etc. will be so good, sorting will be basically pointless and every time you shoot it thereafter you won't have to sort it either. I'd argue good brass may have more impact than a good powder. But that's admittedly basically a unprovable hunch.

The fact is most of it has to do with it..

As for 55. Gn bullets out of a 1/7, I'm pretty sure thats not ideal. Probably over stabilized. I want to say those lighter bullets will run better in a 1-10 to 1-8ish twist barrel I'm pretty sure 1/7 is just too fast. For 1/7 62gn is probably the lightest you want to go. I've had pretty decent luck with my FN CHF 18" (rlgs) 1/7 twist barrel with H335 and Hornady 75gr bthp's with CCI #400's. Using lake city or federal .223 brass (sorry I can't remember which) and I was using a cheap primary arms 4-14 HUD DMR scope. The whole thing was a pretty budget setup. I want to say I was getting .686" 5 shot groups.

Been a while since I've loaded any 5.56 though and have A2520, TAC, RL15, 8280 (probably others) all queued up to try. I think those are my goals this year.
Like you I just barely scratched the surface and kinda moved onto pistol rounds. I have a four + 5.56 recipes for both 55gn and 75 gn (combined) and the cheap winch. 55gn bullets I have are garbage.. I'm almost thinking about throwing them away. Its not worth wasting the powder/ primers/time on them.

who makes your PSA barrel is it FN like mine?

 

[Dr Prepper]

Oh as far as lever actions go though idk if really much of anything will improve that more than what you already have. It would be a waste to buy "premium" brass IMO. I'd only do that for a precision bolt action rifle. You will pay a premium for that last 15% of accuracy juice squeezing..

 

[osprey]

Most of my precision builds are 1-8 twist and they really start to shine with 60gr pills or heavier. A 1-7 twist would have even more of an affinity for heavier projectiles. I achieve fantastic accuracy with cheap brass and minimal sorting. Bullet weight and type will have a great effect on your groups.

 

[Member 34319]

Two things I've learned over the years that might help here.

Do not discount lighter bullets. Everyone wants to go heavy, well sometimes heavy doesn't work.

Rifle stability matters. Having a great round is nice, being able to let it do its job is another. If your rest or series of rests suck, your results will suck. I've watched good shooters get poor results because their set up was shanky.

Lastly, get a loner scope for that rig. It doesn't have to stay on the gun, but sometimes having a load try out scope and a duty scope can be beneficial.

 

[Koda]

Most of my precision builds are 1-8 twist and they really start to shine with 60gr pills or heavier. A 1-7 twist would have even more of an affinity for heavier projectiles. I achieve fantastic accuracy with cheap brass and minimal sorting. Bullet weight and type will have a great effect on your groups.

The first thing I want to try is a heavier bullet, but I've been favoring monolithics because thats what i will be shooting in my bolt gun when I get it back from the smith. The monos are even longer and there no room in the AR magazine to seat them long or closer to the lands.
I picked up some Hammer 60g bullets to try and some CFE223 powder to go with that. I want to try their 75g bullets but those will start to protrude past the shoulder into the case and id like to avoid that....

 

[Koda]

Use a well known accurate powder for the caliber.

Im not certain how to tell which powder is best for a given caliber?
I picked up some CFE223 for this, at least it says right on the container its ideal for 223.....

 

[DizzyJ]

Im not certain how to tell which powder is best for a given caliber?
I picked up some CFE223 for this, at least it says right on the container its ideal for 223.....

Scour the internet. Different powders are recommended for different weight bullets. One of my favorites for heavies in .223 is IMR8208XBR. Varget is another. TAC is yet another.

 

[2506]

One question I have is would sorting my bullets and brass by weight help?

Also, my ES isnt the best, about 50fps. Im not certain how to lower that... I cant change primers but I do have some different powder to try.

Yes

 

[osprey]

Probably not the bullet I would choose for any sort of big game hunting but 60gr ballistic tips with a case full or AR comp is serendipitous in many of my gas guns and a boltie. Although, I believe @Spitpatch has used this bullet to good effect on deer.

 

[Koda]

Scour the internet. Different powders are recommended for different weight bullets. One of my favorites for heavies in .223 is IMR8208XBR. Varget is another. TAC is yet another.

Ill do some web searching....

Is there a general rule to optimize powder choice? My guess is a heavier bullet or longer barrel prefers slower burning powder than lighter bullets in shorter barrels might do best with faster burning powders..... ?

 

[2506]

A couple things to remember: chamge one variable at a time while you're figuring all this out. In my experience, after controlling for brass, bullets, powder, and primers determining the optimum seating depth does more for precision than anything else. You're limited in that aspect with a lever gun a little bit. My Savage 99's first 3 shots will cloverleaf at 100 yards, but once the barrel heats up it's minute of milk jug. YMMV.

 

[DizzyJ]

Ill do some web searching....

Is there a general rule to optimize powder choice? My guess is a heavier bullet or longer barrel prefers slower burning powder than lighter bullets in shorter barrels might do best with faster burning powders..... ?

Generally speaking.

 

[Koda]

Generally speaking.

I think then im on the right track, and my guess is im just dealing with learning the right combination of components my rifle likes. I suspect im making it harder on myself with my odd choice of projectiles, but im ok with that learning curve.

It could be just a matter of switching powder. It could be the 55g Barnes ttsx just isnt a good fit in, this rifle (Maybe it would shoot precise if i could load it closer to the lands....) .

It will be a while as I head into hunting season i wont be reloading but will be trying different things over winter.

 

[JRuby]

Too me loading for a bolt gun vs loading for a Semi is much different - the issue is that with a semi your tolerances must be much closer with a bolt if the cartridge was fired in it - all you really need to do is neck size the case. I have invested in things like case guages, shoulder comparators and ogive comparators ( names may not be exact) the point being it takes alot more effort to build good semi auto ammo that it takes to build good bolt ammo. IMHO

 

[2506]

I think then im on the right track, and my guess is im just dealing with learning the right combination of components my rifle likes. I suspect im making it harder on myself with my odd choice of projectiles, but im ok with that learning curve.

It could be just a matter of switching powder. It could be the 55g Barnes ttsx just isnt a good fit in, this rifle (Maybe it would shoot precise if i could load it closer to the lands....) .

It will be a while as I head into hunting season i wont be reloading but will be trying different things over winter.

FWIW, I've never been able to get Barnes to group to my satisfaction.

 

[Koda]

FWIW, I've never been able to get Barnes to group to my satisfaction.

Thats my suspicion now that ive tried handloading Barnes in 2 calibers.

 

[2506]

Thats my suspicion now that ive tried handloading Barnes in 2 calibers.

I've tried them in .257, .308, and .338 with mixed results. The XPB's are ok for 45 Colt, but they only go up to 275gr and I feel there are better choices.
It's got to be user error, since they seem to sell a gang load of bullets and ammo.