I hope this wasn't anyone on this board

[clearconscience]

I don't think a .22 is a bad round to carry. I mean your more likely going to have to shoot a crazy dog than person. I carry a 9mm but either way if you have to use it your inside less than 10ft. The mafia used .22s for killing for decades.

This guys was definetly stupid. Firet rule of self defense is don't put yourself in dangerous situations. Being in that area of gresham at that time of day most of the time is suicide.

Of course maybe the robber heard what he was carrying and did him a favor by taking it from him.

I don't believe in OC for this reason, in that area he's lucky someone didn't just shoot him in the back of that head and take it

 

[RBid]

Oh gee - I own some .22 rimfire pistols too - I guess that means I don't have a Glock, or a SIG or a Kahr or a S&W defensive carry handgun.

Oh wait...

I do.

Imagine that! A person owning more than one handgun! What a concept!

You're usually a guy I count on to be a voice of reason, so I'm assuming you are distracted or skimmed. Ownership of a P22 or any other .22 is perfectly fine. Lots of fun.

Using one as an OC defensive tool is another story.

 

[The Heretic]

You're usually a guy I count on to be a voice of reason, so I'm assuming you are distracted or skimmed. Ownership of a P22 or any other .22 is perfectly fine. Lots of fun.

Using one as an OC defensive tool is another story.

I did skim - guilty as charged.

I took the post as meant to say that the person who had the pistol stolen had chosen that as a defensive pistol because he was open carrying it. As far as I know, that wasn't mentioned.

I open carry 22 rimfires (not in Portland) all the time - it isn't for defensive carry.

As for 22 rimfire for self-defense, if there is nothing else, it is better than nothing.

 

[Flopsweat]

I did skim - guilty as charged.

I took the post as meant to say that the person who had the pistol stolen had chosen that as a defensive pistol because he was open carrying it. As far as I know, that wasn't mentioned.

I open carry 22 rimfires (not in Portland) all the time - it isn't for defensive carry.

As for 22 rimfire for self-defense, if there is nothing else, it is better than nothing.

I've been known to carry an NAA Mini in 22WMR when necessitated by attire and social situation.

 

[teflon6string]

Victim was begging for it in several ways. BEGGING for it!

He's lucky the oxygen bandit didn't pop him just to dispose of a potential witness.

 

[jbett98]

Maybe it's best that the guy doesn't own his pistol anymore.

 

[RVTECH]

Maybe it's best that the guy doesn't own his pistol anymore.

Ya think? And maybe no more in the future - pretty irresponsible behavior with the first.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Standing around talking at 172nd and Glisan at 2 am. Superb situational awareness there. What was he talking to his cousin about? A drug deal?

 

[Doc In UPlace]

Y'know, when facts present themselves that are contrary to prior beliefs, maybe the thoughtful approach should be to reconsider the prior beliefs.

For example, if the guy standing there wasn't openly displaying a gun on his belt, maybe the crook wouldn't have decided to approach under a pretext, and the robbery had not happened.

But no, that's not going to change my mind about the imaginary benefits of advertising the fact that I have a gun on me.
Why should facts change my mind?

When we transport diamonds, we don't wear T-shirts saying "Hey, big briefcase full of diamonds here, come steal them!" Gosh, maybe we should, then people will be scared of us and leave us alone, because we're obviously not thinking clearly.

What are the other open carry 'advantages"? Maybe wearing a gun says "shoot me first". That's a big plus. Thanks for the advice. Bang.

Obviously wearing the gun didn't deter that armed robber from committing the crime. So where's the upside here? Don't answer, because there isn't any. Word to the wise.

[/rant]

 

[decklin]

So because of one possibly fake story we should take this as an excuse to not open carry? This one documented and possibly fake story is proof that open carry is bad?
Hmm, sounds like something the MDA might say.....

 

[MountainBear]

So because of one possibly fake story we should take this as an excuse to not open carry? This one documented and possibly fake story is proof that open carry is bad?
Hmm, sounds like something the MDA might say.....

If this story, real or fake, doesn't at least give you pause to reflect on your choices, then you're too confident for your own good.
I don't open carry. I believe it makes you a target. I believe that my choice to defend myself and my family should not be forced on the soccer mom behind me in the check out line. I believe there are ways to educate people, but open carry is not generally the way I prefer to go about it.
That being said, even not being an open carry advocate, this story still made me stop and reflect on my choices. First, as has been pretty well hammered here, the situational awareness was pretty lacking. Two, talking to a stranger about your new gun, in retrospect, might not have been the best choice. Third, assuming he'd had better awareness, could he or would he still have been targeted had his gun not been out in the open. I don't know that the last question can be answered, but these things are good to think on.

I don't think this one story should necessarily make people stop open carrying, but it should make them think about the possibilities and consequences that could accompany that choice.

Just my $.02 I suppose.

 

[decklin]

There are consequences to every choice.
I am aware of the possible consequences of open carry.
If the story is true then the man involved ignored the possible consequences of his actions.
You said you don't open carry. Would you put yourself in a bad area at 2am and allow a stranger to approach you and start a conversation?
Of course not. You understand the possibility of consequences and as such avoid them. You avoid that even though you don't open carry.
The guy made several errors but that doesn't mean that open carry is necessarily a bad thing.
If this story is true it would be the first documented case of someone specifically being targeted for their choice to open carry.
But everyday I read about people being targeted because they look like a soft target.
I support people being free to choose their preferred method of carry.
It bugs me though when people who have never open carried try to say open carry makes you a target.
It hasn't happened yet.
Looking like a victim definitely makes you a target. That's proven everyday.
Regardless of whether you oc or cc or don't carry at all you should never look like a victim.
Attention to detail and having your head on a swivel go a long way. Good posture and avoiding low light areas do too.
I'm sure these are practices you believe in as well, right?

 

[MountainBear]

Certainly, situational awareness is a critical behavior regardless of how one chooses to carry. I don't think we disagree on that.

And if I may quote a good movie "...said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use one." I have open carried. There are times and places where most any action can be correct, including open carry. But for everyday carry, open is not correct for me. I think there are better ways to avoid looking like a "soft target" or victim than an openly carried firearm. I think you correctly alluded to some of them.

From reading your posts, it seems like you really want the story to be false. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time. I suppose my point was that regardless of whether we know the whole story or not, whether or not it is 100% true, it is good to use stories like that to reassess your actions. If you are not learning and adapting, then you're probably in a box already. No one has faced every situation, so learning from the actions of others, even if just second hand stories can be important.

 

[decklin]

Certainly, situational awareness is a critical behavior regardless of how one chooses to carry. I don't think we disagree on that.

And if I may quote a good movie "...said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use one." I have open carried. There are times and places where most any action can be correct, including open carry. But for everyday carry, open is not correct for me. I think there are better ways to avoid looking like a "soft target" or victim than an openly carried firearm. I think you correctly alluded to some of them.

From reading your posts, it seems like you really want the story to be false. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time. I suppose my point was that regardless of whether we know the whole story or not, whether or not it is 100% true, it is good to use stories like that to reassess your actions. If you are not learning and adapting, then you're probably in a box already. No one has faced every situation, so learning from the actions of others, even if just second hand stories can be important.

It seems to me we agree on many things. I assumed you had never open carried because typically the only people I've encountered that are against it have never tried it.
I do hope this story is false because it will only be used against not just oc but guns in general.
I am constantly learning and adapting. It's impossible to know everything and be prepared for any eventuality. Only a fool thinks otherwise.
You are absolutely right about being important to pay attention to stories like this and to treat them as a learning exercise.

 

[clearconscience]

I grew up hanging out in that area I lived in gresham but spent a lot of time in rockwood. It was a poop hole back then and has gotten 10 times worse the only way I would hangout at that time in that area is with an AR and full tact vest, and obeying the rules of a gunfight that would probably happen, bring a gun, bring two guns, bring friends with guns.

They should wall it off. Only thing that's moved in there in the last decade is human waste and govt assistance buildings

 

[Flopsweat]

The truth is that openly carried firearms are rarely taken from their owners. Open carriers are rarely shot first during a robbery. Some people like open carry, some don't.

 

[jbett98]

"A Fool and his Gat, are soon parted.

 

[Soldier_Citizen]

he broke every rule I practice when I open carry. Which I do a lot.

Rule #1

Situational awareness

Rule #2

The answer is always NO.
"Can I have a smoke?"
NO

Rule #3

Don't carry on a conversation with people especially those whom seem oddly interested in your gun(though I've broken this when someone spots me carrying in a store and wants to talk ask questions on carry or how I like my gun, but won't see me doing this in a situation that I don't like.... Like say at 230 in the morning on a street corner)

Rule #4

DO NOT invade my bubble

Also helps not to look like a victim(I dunno what he looks like, but my guess is the BG took him straight away to be an easy target).


As for caliber argument... 1 hit with a .22 is better than 10 misses with your .45. So if you can't put rounds on target with a larger caliber pistol than your .22, carry the damned .22. That being said. I don't carry a .22, with the price of ammo anymore it's damned near cheaper to shoot .45 than bubbleguming .22.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

So because of one possibly fake story we should take this as an excuse to not open carry? This one documented and possibly fake story is proof that open carry is bad?
Hmm, sounds like something the MDA might say.....

Just the first thing that came up on a Google search. Maybe it's rare but it happens. Open carry in town if you wish. I'd just rather not advertise in crowded spaces myself.
http://www.gunforums.net/forums/ccw-conceal-carry/1198-man-robbed-centreville-va-area.html
Fairfax County Police Department

Public Information Office
4100 Chain Bridge Road, Fairfax, Va. 22030

703-246-2253. TTY 703-204-2264. Fax 703-246-4253

[email protected]

www.fairfaxcounty.gov

News Release: 06/211/0388/RJP/(1)

July 31, 2006

Man robbed in the Centreville area.

About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, July 30, officers were called to the area of Newton Patent Drive and Newton Tavern Drive. A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive. Two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to the victim's head. The suspects took the victim's hand gun which he was openly carrying. The suspect's then fled the area. The victim was not injured.

The suspects were described as black males wearing dark clothing.

Anyone with information about this incident or these suspects is asked to call Crime Solvers at 1-866-411-TIPS (8477) or the police non-emergency number at 703-691-2131.

 

[decklin]

Just the first thing that came up on a Google search. Maybe it's rare but it happens. Open carry in town if you wish. I'd just rather not advertise in crowded spaces myself.
http://www.gunforums.net/forums/ccw-conceal-carry/1198-man-robbed-centreville-va-area.html
Fairfax County Police Department

Public Information Office
4100 Chain Bridge Road, Fairfax, Va. 22030

703-246-2253. TTY 703-204-2264. Fax 703-246-4253

[email protected]

www.fairfaxcounty.gov

News Release: 06/211/0388/RJP/(1)

July 31, 2006

Man robbed in the Centreville area.

About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, July 30, officers were called to the area of Newton Patent Drive and Newton Tavern Drive. A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive. Two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to the victim's head. The suspects took the victim's hand gun which he was openly carrying. The suspect's then fled the area. The victim was not injured.

The suspects were described as black males wearing dark clothing.

Anyone with information about this incident or these suspects is asked to call Crime Solvers at 1-866-411-TIPS (8477) or the police non-emergency number at 703-691-2131.

That story was proven to be false. It was discussed at length on opencarry.org
Everyone likes to bring up this story as an example even though it wasn't true.