How to be included in “gun culture”

[BigDog67]

We can go to great lengths to teach others, but unless they have a willingness to learn, we, and they, are wasting our collective time.

 

[Member 34319]

I think for most of us this is kind of true, but a little overstated. The truth is that there *IS* a difference between the opinion of someone who's been doing something, or working with something for half a lifetime, and the uninformed opinion of the "new guy". Whether it's dry wall installation, electrical work, firearms, livestock, or nearly any other endeavor, there's a lot to be said for experience.

This goes directly against what our kids have been taught in school for the last couple of decades, namely that every opinion is equally as valid as any other, and that facts are optional. It drives me right up the wall when I tell my 25 year old that *THIS IS THE WAY IT ACTUALLY IS*, and he replies with, "Yes, but I think it's this way." That works when you are playing Dungeons and Dragons, but not with 480 volt circuits.

An opinion is an opinion. It is up to the person reading/hearing it to decide if it is or is not valid.

Blankety stating an opinion doesn't matter because of the persons experience isn't the most respectful way to start the relationship. One should hear the opinion, and respectfully explain whether or not they think it is valid. If one of the two can't be respectful during the exchange of opinions, it will make for a pretty bad and disrespectful relationship.

Opinions shouldn't be confused with facts. In a a trade, say electrical, facts in regard to how something works, are very different than an opinion on something electrical.

Stating something that is an opinion as fact, well, that's a separate can of worms.

 

[American123]

So, you're gonna start walking around nekkid when they come over? Strong move!

Basically that would just be not putting on clothes. I already walk around basically naked, we have rather large windows. Wife has asked "what if the neighbors see?" I say, if they don't want to see, they could not look in our windows.

The standing joke is people think we are nudists based on my behavior in the house, but they look inside to see the hot wife (who always has clothes on) and only ever get full frontal of the ugly husband. Haha...

 

[E4mafia]

This goes directly against what our kids have been taught in school for the last couple of decades, namely that every opinion is equally as valid as any other, and that facts are optional.

The rest before that I agree with as that's how I was raised.

As for the qouted text it makes me think of the interview with Yuri Bezmenov about how thru generations of manipulation to think a certain way that no matter how many facts and truths you shower a person with, the person will never agree fully and will still conform to the teachings they're given and rewarded as facts.

 

[shybladder]

As a journeyman tradesman, if I told that to 90% of my apprentices i believe they would tell me to shove it. 100% of them are gun owners

 

[No_Regerts]

As a journeyman tradesman, if I told that to 90% of my apprentices i believe they would tell me to shove it.

Let them fail. Its often fun to watch.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Let them fail. Its often fun to watch.

There are old electricians, and there are bold electricians. But there are no old, bold electricians.

 

[Stomper]

Whatever you do, don't refer to a magazine as a clip.

And don't start off taking on @Stomper unless you enjoy.

and this....


and this...



and this...


annnnnnnnnnnd this....




Other than that, you'll be fine.

It only works if that kind of thing scares you.

Yeah, ol' Kreul J like those pretty clips in his hair....

 

[Stomper]

I think for most of us this is kind of true, but a little overstated. The truth is that there *IS* a difference between the opinion of someone who's been doing something, or working with something for half a lifetime, and the uninformed opinion of the "new guy". Whether it's dry wall installation, electrical work, firearms, livestock, or nearly any other endeavor, there's a lot to be said for experience.

This goes directly against what our kids have been taught in school for the last couple of decades, namely that every opinion is equally as valid as any other, and that facts are optional. It drives me right up the wall when I tell my 25 year old that *THIS IS THE WAY IT ACTUALLY IS*, and he replies with, "Yes, but I think it's this way." That works when you are playing Dungeons and Dragons, but not with 480 volt circuits.

My only reply to "Youtube Certified" dummies who've never lifted anything heavier than a smartphone is....

 

[CLT65]

If you read that quote again, it talks about staying on task first, thus establishing that the task is the most important vs other-talk. Whether its work, or shooting. It would be weird if you invited someone to the range and they didn't want to focus on the guns and shooting and would rather talk other stuff.

That reminds me of a guy I had a class with in a community college some years back. In the course of conversation he said something about competitive shooting, so we got talking about shooting, guns, reloading, even bullet casting.

What got annoying after a while was how he would preface every tenth sentence with "As a gay man...". It was really important to him somehow that everyone knew about his... preferences. I was polite, but it got old after a while. Whatever dude, I don't care. I just like to talk guns; I don't need to know about the things that we don't have in common, to talk about the things that we do.

 

[American123]

That reminds me of a guy I had a class with in a community college some years back. In the course of conversation he said something about competitive shooting, so we got talking about shooting, guns, reloading, even bullet casting.

What got annoying after a while was how he would preface every tenth sentence with "As a gay man...". It was really important to him somehow that everyone knew about his... preferences. I was polite, but it got old after a while. Whatever dude, I don't care. I just like to talk guns; I don't need to know about the things that we don't have in common, to talk about the things that we do.

Some people identity themselves by a few select attributes of their life. I've always viewed that method of self assessment as the sign of a weak mind. It's as if to say that they are primarily defined by that attribute alone.

 

[OldBroad44]

There's a difference between being new to guns and new to forum. Many newcomers to forum have serious expertise or unique perspective in some aspect of guns or shooting. Sometimes its obvious with their first post that's gloriously on target and full of solid info. Or they tell us about their interests with an intro. Or let us know with their choice of handles. Or they share a photo in just the right spot. A lot of newcomers to forum establish themselves right away. We're a pretty accepting bunch. We even managed to accept all those raunchy rejects from the fishy forum.

 

[OldBroad44]

That reminds me of a guy I had a class with in a community college some years back. In the course of conversation he said something about competitive shooting, so we got talking about shooting, guns, reloading, even bullet casting.

What got annoying after a while was how he would preface every tenth sentence with "As a gay man...". It was really important to him somehow that everyone knew about his... preferences. I was polite, but it got old after a while. Whatever dude, I don't care. I just like to talk guns; I don't need to know about the things that we don't have in common, to talk about the things that we do.

I think being gay might be relevant to some aspects of shooting, such as self defense, given that just being gay or suspected of being gay could get a guy attacked for no reason in some times or places. Also, someone apprehensive about being rejected might wanna make sure you knew so he didn't invest in starting a friendship to talk about guns and get rejected later if/when you figured out he was gay. Of course, its also possible he was looking for a significant other...

 

[madladchad]

I feel this is the main disconnect people feel towards the 2A that it is inherently right wing conservative only and you MUST conform to partake, which is entirely false but I do not feel most newbs or even some long time owners grasp this concept.

Everyone is welcome cept for the grabbers and people who've demonstrated they cannot be safe nor trusted with firearms but as such ONLY those people should be punished. To rest do as you please and live your life how you wish but plz remember to mind Ps and Q's for everyone else and that we all share this right. So please stop allowing (all sides) to be used a stepping stones for those who wish to rob us. That alone we should all recognize and agree to respect off the bat.

I agree with this. I don't need to agree with people on taxes or environmental policy to ally with them over gun ownership. Happy to shoot with any sane person who wants to own guns.

 

[bbbass]

Or, if you find that platform means a lot to you, make the 2A a part of that platform. If enough of the constituents are 2A friendly and hold their party to the fire, they'll listen. There are some WA Democrats that vote pro 2A because they know they'll get tossed otherwise.

The subject of gun control used to be radioactive in politics. That was a long long long time ago.

 

[bbbass]

Anyone who is seriously into salmon/steelhead know fishermen can be real bubblegumes!

YES!!!!

Waht is up with that? Even here, I get crap from them. Opinionated to say the least!!! Don't even get one talking about closing the hatcheries to save natural spawners! Ain nobody got enough time to listen to that!!!!!

 

[ma96782]

My WARNING to to those that want to be "included" in gun culture. Are you familiar with the old saying?

"Any group that would have me as a member....."

Yeah....think long and hard. And be careful about what you wish for. Otherwise, you'll be sure to end up on someone's Govt. naughty list.


Aloha, Mark

 

[bbbass]

We are encouraged to treat everyone "with respect". But there's a problem. Respect is EARNED. If we granted respect to everyone, it would mean nothing other than that we have poor judgement. We CAN treat everyone with courtesy. But when it comes to someone we don't know the best we can do is to treat them as if we respected them, hoping that they will prove worthy of that respect.

The core of NWFA is solid first hand info about guns and gun use and shooting. The fastest way to earn respect is to share serious expertise about the aspects of guns and shooting you know the most about. Not by sounding off loudly and frequently on subjects that you know little about, have only read something about, or that are mostly a matter of opinion. And keep in mind we have lots of experience here--serious first hand experience.

And yeah, people here often express affection and respect by messing with each other a bit, all in good fun. One of the things I like most about NWFA is the gun humor and funny stories.

True story:

IMO most people deserve BASIC RESPECT, ie courtesy etc. I treat people well until they mess with me....

I was a volunteer for Air Life of Oregon medflight organization. Then they built a new satellite facility here in NE Oregon and needed a representative part time. My home inspection biz was slowing down due to competition, so I decided to apply, wrote a good resume with a killer cover letter, and was hired.

I could have worked from home, but my stuporvisor thought it would be better if the flight crews and pilots got to know me and me them, and instructed me to have an office at the hangar. This put me in close contact with the Respiratory Therapists, Flight Nurses, and the pilots.

Apparently, they resented an "outsider" having an office at their quarters where they spent 24hr shifts. They entered my office whenever they please, used my computer to watch porn, and helped themselves to supplies that came out of MY budget. They felt free to blab on politics, but I didn't dare say a thing. They rolled their eyes when I mentioned the name of my former biz = "HomePro of Eastern Oregon". Cut off my headphone when I flew on the plane with them. Reported me for being at the supermarket at 10am when they had no idea I had worked the whole weekend, on salary, and been at meetings til 10pm the night before. Reported me for trying to get a pilot to move along after I had paid for pilot to attend a golf tourney I helped sponsor and the course marshall had to constantly tell our group to keep moving. Wrote in a peer review that if I had a college degree that we could have had a conversation on a higher level. (This from a writer of ads that I was paying out of MY budget, and trying to get to do ads the way I wanted them done... nothing fancy, keep it simple. She had no marketing experience, was great at graphics, but nevertheless felt I was insulting her by wanting something different. What happened to the customer is always right?)

I found it odd that people from the great megalopolis of Bend, OR (sarc) would talk about locals in terms of rednecks, hicks, tooth-to-tattoo ratio, ridicule for biz closing at 9pm or during elk season, etc. One of my best buddies was from old town Bend, so I really didn't understand where all this "attitude" was coming from.

I mentioned it during a lunch with the big boss, and was told that I had to earn their respect. A whole frigging town has to earn their respect????

I can understand when somebody joins a group that has certain knowledge and skillz that one has to earn their standing. Certainly, this is common among professional medical technicians, whose standards are to review each other's performance and skillz. But I think that can result in treating outsiders with the same kind of critical review, that is IMO unwarranted because they had no idea what my background, specialty, knowledge was in a job that was entirely different from what they did. (Note: I increased Air LIfe membership rates by 600% during my time, 2 yrs, as a rep. I built membership participation rate in a new service county from 0% to 95% of the population of the county! Out from under the feet of a competitor. That's marketing experience/savvy!! From a redneck local hick w/o a college degree.)

I told the big boss that I understood not being peer of theirs, but the insulting of myself and an ENTIRE TOWN, was beyond disrespectful for no reason whatsoever. EVERYBODY DESERVES BASIC HUMAN RESPECT, at least until they don't.

The upshot is that I can be kind and courteous to someone that is markedly different from myself, up until the point they mistreat me.... then it's GAME ON! Not giving others basic respect until they don't deserve it says something about the kind of person the observer is too!!!!

Otherwise I'm on board with "Don't make none, won't be none" towards newcomers, here and at the range.... I'll be welcoming, if a bit skeptical due to past experiences, until they start shooting their mouths off about things they know little about, they start badmouthing other members, making broad generalizations, or start trying to change culture. They need to go start their own culture, not mess with an existing population.


bb

 

[Wombat of Doom]

I believe it to be a two way street.

Act too superior to the ones joining in by demanding they respect you because you have been there longer or are older, rubs me the wrong way. It always has. Still does, even as I am becoming the elder.

I'm not the only one that sees things like that.

I think that is where the problem lies.

Number 3 " Your opinions don't matter yet."
-This ones truly shows a lot.

If the older generation thinks like this, why should the younger generations? Is it because you said so? When do you allow their opinions to matter?

in my experience, the n00b opinions are often a good way to get oneself killed. There are a lot of easy ways to end up dead or injured and most n00bs I have met have some ideas straight out of video games that are empirically dangerous / potentially lethal. And listening to the old timers is a good way to learn. I can't say the amount I have learned from those many dismiss as FUDDs.

I also introduce myself to young shooters that scare me as friendly as possible and usually it is well received as I can usually improve their ability to hit the broad side of a barn. I am no high end shooting coach, but in general I can help give someone a crash course in not accidentally offing themselves. It helps I always have cool teaching aids.

 

[HaveGun]

Just put a newbie on ignore today. Myself and a couple other members tried to explain the importance of knowing your carry gun's capability at longer distances, since you never know what scenario you may find yourself in.

The guy was dismissive, argumentative, and then insulting. All with 20 posts under his belt.

So I put him on ignore. Just not worth it. I'm tired of arguing with people. I just left another gun forum where it seems all I was doing was getting into arguments with members who were set in their ways and refused to listen to logic or facts. I got a temp ban for calling the guy who super-glued his safety off an idiot. Which he clearly is. Any site that protects members who advocate unsafe, stupid, and legally questionable practices is a site that I refuse to support.

I think NWF has a pretty good balance of views and members and the fact that there are two major threads discussing how to be more welcoming of newbies is a pretty good indicator of the sort of folks here.