Hornady Z-Max bullets; not for self-defense.

Messages
883
Reactions
2,433
Was perusing Midway's offerings for .40 cal hollow points to try and came across the Hornady Z-Max that they advertised as a brand new item.

Looks like the FTX or Critical Defense design, only with a green tip.

It was the description of the bullet that disgusted me.

Could you imagine if you had to use one of these in a self-defense shooting and the lawyer for the other side happened upon the description??

He would have a field day portraying you as a demented individual living in a fantasy land.

WTH anyone would use such a description for their bullets is beyond me.

I thought the Black Talon fiasco was ridiculous and that companies would have learned by now that gun owners are under intense scrutiny these days.

Then I read this idiocy...
Hornady Z-Max Bullets 40 S&W 10mm Auto (400 Diameter) 165 Grain FTX

"Hornady is known for making Accurate, Deadly, Dependable bullets. Z-Max bullets are no exception. These bullets have been specifically designed for delivering devastating expansion and explosive results specifically for zombie elimination. The polymer tip enhances accuracy and promotes devastating expansion while raising the ballistic coefficient. Hornady's swaging process creates precise formation of the bullet core around the tip of the bullet, creating a build-up of energy which contributes to its phenomenal performance. The patented Flex Tip features an interlocking design that keeps the core of the bullet and the jacket together creating a deeper penetrating, more humane kill. Not only that, they offer controlled expansion, enhanced accuracy and the delivery of flatter trajectories. This is not loaded ammunition."

The ammo is basically identical to the Critical Defense ammo which I haven't found the individual bullets available for reloading; only the entire cartridge.

zmaxvscritdef.jpg

And the ammo box for these things is amazingly in more poor taste than the bullet description...

zmaxboxflaps.jpg

zmaxback.jpg
 
Messages
4,937
Reactions
15,451
I think it's juvenile and incredibly stupid and paints gun owners in a very negative light.
These have been around for a decade or so. Just a remnant of the WAY played out zombie fad of yesteryear. Good ammo, but the packaging is just novelty. Theres no upside to carrying it, but if the type of ammo you use in a DGU is the difference maker between jail and justified, you are probably cutting it too close.

I wouldn't get too bent about it. Dont like it, dont buy it.:s0092:
 
OP
P
Messages
883
Reactions
2,433
These have been around for a decade or so. Just a remnant of the WAY played out zombie fad of yesteryear. Good ammo, but the packaging is just novelty. Theres no upside to carrying it, but if the type of ammo you use in a DGU is the difference maker between jail and justified, you are probably cutting it too close.

I wouldn't get too bent about it. Dont like it, dont buy it.:s0092:
It's frustrating because you can't buy the Critical Defense bullets to reload; only if they are these stupid green tip version which are labeled in such a juvenile way that actually using them increases your risk of a over-zealous attorney using them to paint you as an unstable individual.

I like the performance of the bullet itself, but in actual testing of the loaded ammunition, I have found it unacceptable in accuracy testing.

Was hoping I could try my own recipes using the bullets to see if I could improve accuracy.

But you're right; I will simply choose to go elsewhere for my self-defense ammo.
 

awshoot

Messages
4,911
Reactions
10,838
... Theres no upside to carrying it, but if the type of ammo you use in a DGU is the difference maker between jail and justified, you are probably cutting it too close. ...
I don't know. They prosecuted this guy (he was acquitted): Idaho Case Illustrates Attacker Doesn't Need Weapon to Justify Armed Defense

I mean, he only had one tooth knocked out and couple cracked and had been knocked to the floor and the person beating him had actively prevented him from retreating prior to the fight, but yeah, might as well prosecute. Idaho no less.
 

awshoot

Messages
4,911
Reactions
10,838
It's frustrating because you can't buy the Critical Defense bullets to reload; only if they are these stupid green tip version ...
Isn't it standard advice to not use reloads for self defense ammo annyway? Even without the zombie box, you open yourself up to all kinds of accusations about having to make even more deadly carts than you can buy (extra power, extra accuracy, extra whateverBS). It also precludes some types of forensic testing because the cartridges aren't some standardized load from a commercial manufacturer (even if the reality is that your reloads are probably more consistent, certain tests that require shooting the gun are probably not going to be admitted as evidence).
 
Messages
1,332
Reactions
2,274
Isn't it standard advice to not use reloads for self defense ammo annyway? Even without the zombie box, you open yourself up to all kinds of accusations about having to make even more deadly carts than you can buy (extra power, extra accuracy, extra whateverBS). It also precludes some types of forensic testing because the cartridges aren't some standardized load from a commercial manufacturer (even if the reality is that your reloads are probably more consistent, certain tests that require shooting the gun are probably not going to be admitted as evidence).
Personally, I'm not too worried about it. If my life is in danger to the point that I have to shoot someone, I will use whatever means I have available to defend myself. Whether that be practice ammo, factory hollow points, my favorite deer hunting load, or a rusty shovel, it matters not to me.

If it's justified, it's justified.
:s0092:
 
OP
P
Messages
883
Reactions
2,433
Isn't it standard advice to not use reloads for self defense ammo annyway? Even without the zombie box, you open yourself up to all kinds of accusations about having to make even more deadly carts than you can buy (extra power, extra accuracy, extra whateverBS). It also precludes some types of forensic testing because the cartridges aren't some standardized load from a commercial manufacturer (even if the reality is that your reloads are probably more consistent, certain tests that require shooting the gun are probably not going to be admitted as evidence).
Yes. The standard advice is to not use reloads for self-defense. It is all based on a single case that had nothing to do with self-defense.

There has never been a case in which a person was prosecuted or received extra scrutiny over using reloads vs. factory ammo in a self-defense case.

There have been cases, however, in which a person received extra attention in a shooting due to aggressive lettering on their weapon. IMHO, having the Punisher logo on your weapon is much dumber than using reloads for self-defense; as long as you aren't using the aforementioned "zombie bullets" or doing something stupid like putting poison in the hollow points.
 
Messages
655
Reactions
1,283
If it is justified you shoildn't have any readon to be charged with anything other then what the democrap district attorny drums up for their anti-gun bullbubblegum.
It is getting to be the victom is the criminal and the criminal is the victom
.
All these anti gun laws are so intrusive to us law abbiding citizens, turning us in to criminals while the criminals walk away scott free to repeat their crimes.
 

bgdawgrr

Messages
483
Reactions
851
Goes back to a “show me the case” argument.

Unless one advertises those are “zombie bullets”. And you carry a zombie hunting card, I highly doubt even an over zealous, anti gun prosecutor would be aware to use that against you.
Even IF he did, the Hornady SD rep would be an affirmative defense. How am I, a simple consumer, supposed to know the “filling” being green or red means anything special?
 

kmk1012

Messages
1,964
Reactions
3,896
I went shooting several years ago with a friend and he ran short on ammo so I gave him some of my reloads. A few days later he was in a deadly use of force accident, he used the ammo I had reloaded (and cast) to take a life. Long story short, other guy turned out to not be armed and he is currently doing 10yrs. I had lots of questions to answer to the prosecutor, NONE of which had to do about the ammo used.
 
Messages
354
Reactions
456
well if you shoot someone with the zombie ammo it shouldn't work right? It would be less than lethal for the living right? that would be a good defense. im just joking!

it was a huge fad some years back and brought a lot of new firearms enthusiast to the range.
I was teaching a Sniper course (TDY) over at Ft. Dix and happen to see a flyer for a zombie shoot that same day. in between sessions, i jumped over there with some guys and it was a hoot to watch, they had targets on lifters and track. dozens of them that came in waves and them randomly, each session was 5-10 minutes.

who cares what Hornady put on the box, it says its for the undead. buying critical defense, Hydro Shock,etc and using it because its whats law enforcement uses can be argued against also. are you a LEO? if not why you using it?
in this day and age everyone is a little too sensitive to everything and if you do use your firearm to defend yourself and or family. Ammunition type is really a moot point.
 
OP
P
Messages
883
Reactions
2,433
in this day and age everyone is a little too sensitive to everything...
You just made my entire point.

Would you want a lawyer showing a jury of this current generation of "sensitive" Americans pictures of the ammo box ablaze with cartoonish zombie pictures and lettering and reading aloud the phrase "These bullets have been specifically designed for delivering devastating expansion and explosive results specifically for zombie elimination" when describing how you shot the poor, downtrodden homeless man that only had a knife?

In this screwed up day and age, it's all about optics and spin.

Choose to use ridiculously marketed "zombie" ammunition and be prepared for the very slim chance that it will be used to paint you as an immature person detached from reality.
 
Messages
468
Reactions
734
I agree that the ad is juvenile and would be worrisome and problematic in a criminal or civil post-shooting trial.

Just because you survived the gunfight doesn't mean you won. It may mean your personal and family nightmare just began.

My SD and HD ammo is the same ammo issued to the LEOs that keep my town safe.
 
Last edited:
Messages
2,180
Reactions
2,914
Anybody who knows the whole George A. Romero based Zombocalypse mythos would know you don't need the same ammo you would use on the living.
Shots anywhere but the head don't work, so JHPs would work better only if you hit exactly a right stop to remove support/locomotion.
FMJ does just fine on head shots, so would be OK against walkers and less likely to malf.
Conclusion: It's a stupid gimmick that could cause problems in a SD shooting. I doubt that any SD shooting any of us may have to engage in won't involve walking dead.
 
I love the now aging popularity of all the zombie stuff since they are showing up more and more in clearance sections. :cool:

Agreed on the industry describing a pistol caliber not meant for hunting game animals, as it does in that description, not well thought out.

As for home loads vrs. commercial for defense use? I know most likely any defensive use of my carry will be a distance that will make little difference if I make custom loads for accuracy. So I carry production loaded ammunition the same as local LE. I then load my training rounds to have similar ballistics so the feel in training is aprox the same. (If I am using a long gun for the defense it's going to be an SHTF time most likely, so my precision custom loaded rounds will be my go to.)

I hope the day never comes where I have to use and justify deadly force. But anything I can do now to edge to my side for the legal $h1t storm that will happen, not only criminal but the huge civil lawsuit that comes as a result of defending myself or family, is an easy decision for me to make now.
 

UPCOMING EVENTS

Free Firearms Safety Course (I-1639 Compliant)
Virtual Webinar (Zoom). Registration Link in the course description.
Seattle, WA, USA
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Gun Show
Battleground Community Center
912 E Main St, Battle Ground, WA 98604, USA
Rimfire Challenge Dec 12th @ DRRC
Douglas Ridge Rifle Club
27787 OR-224, Eagle Creek, OR 97022, USA

LATEST RESOURCE REVIEWS

  • Sportsman's Warehouse - Albany
    5.00 star(s)
    Good products at good prices with friendly and knowledgeable staff!
    We like to visit the Albany location as it's closer but have been to several others and they have all been great!:D
  • Umpqua Survival
    4.00 star(s)
    Easy NFA transfer
    I had a silencer transferred through their shop. The paperwork was quick and the staff helpful and friendly. Whilst waiting, I did see a nice...
  • MK Tactical
    5.00 star(s)
    Awesome staff
    Being new to the area and having just made an online purchase of an AR lower, I opted to use MK Tactical as my FFL, without knowing anything about...
  • J&B Firearm Sales
    5.00 star(s)
    Good local shop
    Picked up a rifle yesterday from J&B. This was the second or third gun purchase over the last few years from them. I always enjoy stopping by...
  • H&K Gun Shop
    5.00 star(s)
    The only place I have found 9mm in stock
    I’ll admit I didn’t even know this place existed, as I don’t tend to go into Forest Grove often. But it’s a giant (looks bigger from the...
Top Bottom