Washington HB 1068 - Standard Capacity Magazine ban

[Seraphim38]

OOOH I love that idea @BlindedByScience.

I never expected that in my life time there would come such completely illogical and punitive laws against otherwise law-abiding citizens, while no attention is paid to reducing actual gun violence by unlawful possessors.

This state's trend towards laws based on emotion rather than facts, has me wondering what actions should be taken beforehand.

With the mag restriction law proposed, I don't know if I should go out and buy a 1911 again. sigh...

 

[shibbershabber]

What @Boss said.

And while youre taking time to hound elected people... hound your 2A organizations and let them know exactly what you expect them to do.

For example... remember when NRA spent $$ fighting something in court about restoring gun rights to someone convicted of domestic violence?
While I dont think that these people should denied firearms in every case....

I dont think that the NRA should be wasting resources on a case like that when there are more serious regs out there that they could fight that affect EVERYONE and the millions living under draconian gun control laws and have never beat up their wife.

I got really pissed about that one right around the time 594 went thru here... and not a peep was heard from NRA... while they were too busy fighting a losing case for a wife beater.

 

[Boss]

OOOH I love that idea @BlindedByScience.

I never expected that in my life time there would come such completely illogical and punitive laws against otherwise law-abiding citizens, while no attention is paid to reducing actual gun violence by unlawful possessors.

And this is where they're exploiting 'good' gun owners, who as a general rule, tend to be very law abiding, because of the consequences. It's a real kick in the wedding tackle to make a group of otherwise law abiding folks choose between their rights/freedom and compliance.

That and folks in power don't like being ignored. Real criminals ignore them, so they need to 'do something' that gets compliance, so go after law-abiding...many will follow along even tho they've done nothing wrong (and are exactly the wrong people to go after).

With the mag restriction law proposed, I don't know if I should go out and buy a 1911 again. sigh...

This is part of the 'between the lines' fallout...deterrence of law abiding folks buying new guns or accessories...as we know down the road, and even currently, efforts are in the works not to just ban sale/transfer, but possession of items, look at kingcountycantwait.org's action plan and look at NJ. Again, forcing good, decent law abiding folks who've done NOTHING wrong into having to make some very hard decisions.

One need only look at the reality...who is going to be vastly more affected by these laws? Maybe a handful of criminals in rare cases or tens if not hundreds of thousands of law abiding citizens?

Get involved folks. Don't gotta stand tall, but you do gotta stand up.

BOSS

 

[arakboss]

You know, I am warming to the idea of moving back to Oregon. Sad ain't it. LOL

All this bs is going to roll south to Oregon. You might have better luck going to east to Potato Country.

 

[notazombie]

All this bs is going to roll south to Oregon. You might have better luck going to east to Potato Country.

Sorry we're full. Split Oregon and Washington at the Cascades. Then we'll all march those commies into the sea together.

 

[Seraphim38]

@Boss I have no illusions about what you are saying.

As a law abiding citizen, legal gun owner and CPL holder, the concept of confiscation or making possession illegal overnight...it's shameful for them to even be proposing it IMO.

IF a law is passed that makes it difficult or impossible for new acquisitions for lawful possessors, I have a collection that could do the job if SHTF. But a retroactive ban/confiscation/requirement to forfeit arms or magazines...yikes.

This is a sore spot especially for suppressor owners who can never go back. It's one thing to ban a 20 dollar 20 round mag, but banning items acquired through legal means, and reviewed by the ATF through a 1 year wait...man I can't even put words to how angry and unjust would be

 

[Boss]

^^S38.

It's all rolling downhill now at an accelerating rate. The powers that be, who want to get or stay elected will say whatever the majority of registered voters want to hear and to get their votes. Here in WA, that means catering to misguided ideals of the D's in the Puget Sound and Spokane.

The other side of the coin is: So they've fixed all the other criminal and social problems in WA? Particularly Seattle and Tacoma? Hmmm, must of missed that hidden somewhere in amongst all the homeless encampments...

WA/The Puget sound may have to hit rock bottom before things start swinging back in proper direction(s)...and that's not a good thing.

BOSS

 

[shibbershabber]

^^S38.

It's all rolling downhill now at an accelerating rate. The powers that be, who want to get or stay elected will say whatever the majority of registered voters want to hear and to get their votes. Here in WA, that means catering to misguided ideals of the D's in the Puget Sound and Spokane.

The other side of the coin is: So they've fixed all the other criminal and social problems in WA? Particularly Seattle and Tacoma? Hmmm, must of missed that hidden somewhere in amongst all the homeless encampments...

WA/The Puget sound may have to hit rock bottom before things start swinging back in proper direction(s)...and that's not a good thing.

BOSS

Thats just the thing... these people dont need to do this to get reelected.

In most districts, all they need to do is run as a Democrat and its a done deal.

 

[Seraphim38]

Unfortunately, social/civil chaos doesn't produce good leaders, nor does it indicate that the voting populous would vote for positive changes.

To the contrary, the degeneration of society would likely will result in poorer decisions by the voting population, as voters with poor judgement support of leaders with poor judgement.

I don't expect that waiting for things to degenerate would have any positive affect of the quality of legislative leadership.

 

[shibbershabber]

@Seraphim38 has a point...

If, for example, the whole of the US descended into another civil war..... I dont think that we would emerge with the same rights, as they were written/intended in the Constitution.

People were a different breed back in the 1700s... People today would gladly make the same stupid decisions that would put us on a path to subjugation again and eventually another conflict.

 

[Boss]

I'm not suggesting waiting...but if voters are going to continue to vote for politicians/policies that are failing, eventually, *hopefully* enough folks with functioning braincells will comprehend it and enact change. Social/political matters tend to be pendulums...they swing one way until enough get fed up with it...then it swings the other way until the other side gets fed up enough to act in mass...and so on...

I do believe WA has the numbers to get things back on track through the legislative process...what WA currently lacks is whatever it takes to get a lot more, if not all, conservatives and moderates to get their priorities straight and involved. Particularly at the rate things are going...sitting on the sidelines and donating $10 to the NRA isn't going to cut it.

And once again, that goes to some items listed above including strong, visible, local 2A leadership across multiple platforms.

BOSS

 

[Boss]

^^Not to put you on the spot, but six paragraphs and you didn't answer the simple question.

Your plans is to____?

Hey, if its to just enjoy shooting until you have to turn your guns in (hopefully that day never comes), so be it, but you could be doing a good bit more rather than letting everyone else fight the battles for you (writing legislators, informing/educating others, donating, etc).

Case in point, imagine if every one of the ~1.25M people who voted NO on 1639 donated just 25 bucks to a local/state association to fight these things here. That'd be about $31M. You might be able to make some headway.

Boss

 

[nwslopoke]

I will give you my 100% honest answer. And others here may not enjoy hearing it. Much as I do not like saying it, I'm pretty fatalistic about the future of private firearms ownership. Gun owners are such a minority now. I feel pretty powerless, particularly living on the west coast. My impression is that the tide is against us, we live in one of the very few civilized societies that still allows fairly permissive firearms ownership. It's a matter of time that it will go away. Politics and demographics are against us. As populations grow, there are fewer places to discharge a firearm, more areas get built up, more open land gets closed. Higher population density dictates more control. Paradoxically, at a time when population density has increased, moral standards have subsided. So now we have people in our midst who lack the conscience and self restraint that in the past might have prevented them from going out and pulling off a mass school yard shooting. We have idiots who will go out into the woods and cut trees in half with an AK just because; the forest service then closes that area off. Increased populations combined with reduced self restraint is a recipe for ever more control being exerted by politicians.



That sounds good, but it just isn't what most people of the right wing do. Those are the tactics of the left wing and the anarchists and most people of the right wing find it distasteful. This is a pretty clear example of the difference between the two factions. The right wing is content with the status quo, doesn't like to make noise, it goes against their grain. The left wing is never happy unless change is taking place or being fomented. The right wing is happy as things are; the left wing pushes for change because they think the results will cause them happiness. In general.

Another thing to think about along the line of making noise. You will note that those left wing crowds that are always out in protest, most of them are young. Meaning, they aren't worrying too much about missing work. That is another arena where demographics are working against gun ownership. Because of the citification (is that a word?) of our population, fewer and fewer young people are taking up guns and shooting. We don't have masses of unemployed youth to go out and make noise. Most gun owners are mature, working people who are disinclined to get involved in demonstration.

Re. the media attention, what good does that do when the majority of the population thinks "common sense" gun control measures are a good idea? This is the problem with being a minority. That big block of voters in the middle who normally aren't gun-haters also don't own guns. So even though they aren't gun-haters, they can't see a downside to new controls which are presented as common sense changes that enhance public safety. Common conclusion when a ballot is being filled out: "This sounds reasonable and I don't see what harm it can do."

Talk about armed rebellion to retain gun rights, it's mostly hot air. Most gun owners wouldn't give everything else up for the single issue of Second Amendment rights. And for those who would give it all up, go to the hills and try a Red Dawn scenario, defeat is guaranteed. The federal government has armies to put up against such resistance. Every federal agency has its own police force. Don't think that federal employees would come over to your side; they have a rice bowl to preserve. They will take orders and do the job.

So here I am, firearms enthusiast and shooter for over 55 years. I'm used to being on the losing side of most political arguments. 90% of the time, the candidates and issues I vote for lose. A person gets tired of fighting losing battles over and over again. I vote against any tax measures that come along, they nearly always pass. I see the sun setting on the shooting hobby but I'm determined to enjoy it as much as I can for what life time I have remaining.

I have to disagree with almost everything you said. In fairness to those who want to get off the bench and fight it's not too much to ask those that don't, just say or do nothing.

A coworker has a .45 revolver and a shotgun. Anything beyond that in his thinking is just stupid ninja wannabes. Many people think this way untl the reality of a personal crime or some circumstances slaps them in the face like a dead fish.

The reality that they are a very low priority to 911 or that criminals tend to be unsimpathetic in their actions won't comfort them in their current beliefs guns are for fun and fantasy.

Restraining Orders, home alarm systems and brightlights may be a deterrent, but then what? Some people don't have nice, safe, normal lives.

 

[DuneHopper]

When the FBI began carrying, they did so only because they could, as the 2nd Amendment granted his men that ability.
This also allowed fully auto-weapons as well. NO OTHER LAW GRANTED THEM)

WHY DID THEY CARRY FULL AUTO? BECAUSE CRIMINALS CARRIED FULL AUTOS.

WHY DO YOU NEED MORE THEN A HUNTING RIFLE AND REVOLVER, IN CASE YOU WERE NOT PAYING ATTENTION.......
BECAUSE THE CRIMINALS DO.

THERE IS NOTHING ELSE THAT NEEDS SAYING, IF EMPLOYEES OF OUR GOVERNMENT CARRY BECAUSE
THE 2ND AMENDMENT ALLOWS IT, AND CARRIED WHAT FIREARMS THEY DID, BASED ON WHAT CRIMINALS USE...
DISCUSSION OVER....

WHY IS THIS EVEN A DISCUSSION GEEES !

 

[Geardo]

Talk about armed rebellion to retain gun rights, it's mostly hot air. Most gun owners wouldn't give everything else up for the single issue of Second Amendment rights. And for those who would give it all up, go to the hills and try a Red Dawn scenario, defeat is guaranteed. The federal government has armies to put up against such resistance. Every federal agency has its own police force. Don't think that federal employees would come over to your side; they have a rice bowl to preserve. They will take orders and do the jo

I agree most of the talk is hot air. I dissagree the results would be complete defeat. They might lead to the destruction of the US as we know it, but I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees. Just look at the math. We only need like 1% of gun owners.

 

[Lilhigbee]

@gmerkt, sadly I agree with you. While I do my bit, vote, write, contribute (life NRA, Life SAF, GOA, OFF, etc.,etc.,) I think we are just postponing the inevitable. Even here at NWFA, what should be the strongest 2A support group around, there are a number who think the bump-stock ban was some kind of useful tactical maneuver, that universal BGC's are okay, that raising the age limit to purchase to 21 is a good idea. When a supposedly free people accept these kinds of infringements, ultimately they will surrender.
Add to that a majority of the population who don't really understand what freedom means, have no idea that the Constitution is strictly a limit on government or why it is that way, nor care, quite possibly fear not having the government take care of them, and freedom is a lost cause.
As far as what will I do?? Continue to vote, write, contribute to those who can fight. I don't have any kids to worry about, my nieces and nephews are more likely part of the problem than any solution. Therefore I'm not going to ruin my life for an ideal I can't save or benefit from anyway. At some point I will move my residency to a "free" state long enough to legally sell everything that has paperwork attached to it to rinse it clean for the new owner. Move to a remote area and just live under the radar.
As far as the talk of removing the traitors, then what?? If you took every 2A enemy out of public office tomorrow, what would replace them?? More of the same. You couldn't get a Pro-2A majority elected on the left coast for love nor money.
What about the apathy of the non-voting voters?? "Get out the vote!!" Look at the percentages; within .1% apathy on both sides of the issues. We get out more voters, they get out more voters, the numbers get bigger, the results are the same. It's unreasonable to think that any mass push to get people to vote will only support one side.
Civil war?? Waste of time. No matter what, when it's over you have a majority of people who embrace government control and socialist ideals. When all is said and done, that will be our country's downfall.

 

[ARFrog]

For those of you talking about being over-run by the libs, here is a little free "dystopia" entertainment for your New Year where the good guys eventually win...

Edgar Rice Bourroughs - the Red Hawk
The Red Hawk

Star Trek The Original Series S02E25 - The Omega Glory

May you each have a happy and prosperous 2019!

 

[Caveman Jim]

That's funny cuz all the magazines I own are "standard capacity"...

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Again I say be careful with the phrase "Standard Capacity Magazine".

In my Gun Digest and Shooters Bible catalogs from 1969 through 1978...
The listing for the Colt AR15 rifle has it coming from the factory with a 5 round magazine...
One might be able to argue that 5 rounds are the "Standard" , since the rifle came from the factory that way.

Please note that I am not for restricting magazines of any type or capacity....Just pointing out something to think about.
Andy

 

[shibbershabber]

@gmerkt Has a point. For him, at his age and in his situation... let the chips fall where they may.

I dont think that rebellion against the .gov is futile. I think there would be limited success and if widespread enough we could have major victories... I do think that such a conflict would be the end of the USA and end in some sort of partitioning of the country.

Even then, I dont know if we could have a stable country with the same guaranteed rights as we should have now.


Regarding getting out in the streets... Im not talking about blocking roads and fighting with the police...
Think back to the Tea Party days those were mostly middle aged working people... we can do it again. Conservatism needs another revival.. might as well start in the lions den over guns.
Im talking about public hearings. Pestering them at town halls with gun questions. Peacefully standing in front of their offices with signs and handing out flyers. Not throwing a brick through the windows and pissing on the floor.

We can do this without compromising our principles