Hawaii wildfire lesson: You are on your own

[Stomper]

Godzirra

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[solv3nt]

what was burning? i don't See any forests. What started the fire?

They don't know yet. Possibly high winds that knocked down live power lines(?) There actually are... or rather where... very dense tracks of tropical forest covering many of the valleys in the area, but Lahaina itself is surrounded by crop land... and this time of year... mainly all dried tinder. The fire blew through the fields under high winds.

That side of the island is very much a tropical desert. There are kiawe plants that are very dry, thin branch large bushes. Kiawe is commonly used instead of mesquite for smoking. It's similar to a nice dry fir tree.

 

[Tlock]

The 2020 fire in the santiam canyon was about the same. No warning, people had very little time to get out. I trust the goverment about as much as I trust a fart after a night of beer drinking!

 

[kmk1012]

The 2020 fire in the santiam canyon was about the same. No warning, people had very little time to get out. I trust the goverment about as much as I trust a fart after a night of beer drinking!

Yep, given enough encounters from either and you'll need new shorts

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Wildfires wiped out the entire town of Lahaina on Maui last week. I'm over on the Big Island and we had some large fires but nothing that threatened a large community like there.

This is the fire that was 20 minutes from my house earlier in the day:
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As we are starting to learn, the emergency response was essentially zero in Lahaina. We have the USA's most sophisticated (on paper) emergency warning system for tsunamis and other emergencies but it was no even turned on. Power and cell towers went down and evacuation notices were too late and too little. They even announced the fire was 100% contained before the town was hit and only announced evacuations after the whole town was burned.

Take a look at this fly over video from 2 days after the fire. What do you notice? or perhaps not see?

That's right, a complete lack of emergency services. I see one fire truck in that entire video. No search and rescue, no FEMA, no national guard.

They are finding people who were trapped in homes 4 days later because they were too elderly or disabled to get out. Here is what one of my fellow physicians who works over there said today:



The day of the fire we had a car fire on my street. The hurricane winds were not as bad as maui (probably 30 mph in my area) but if that car fire caught my neighborhood would have went up because Im mostly in an ironwood forest.

I had emergency bags, 3 days emergency food, water, carry on sized suitcase, dog food, chainsaw in the truck in 5 minutes and ready to go when our main fire was still 20 min away.

I expect most here have the same mentality. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, the government isnt going to come save you what-so-ever. we just had our reminder that nothing has changed.

I heard one house escaped the fire. Got watered it down beforehand apparently. Can't find news on it but that's what I heard fwiw.

 

[Croat]

Why did so many people have to die? Where was the emergency management? Performance absolutely sucked. We'll wait and see if there is any accountability for this disaster (don't hold your breath). Politicians will blame the underlings, but performance starts at the top, and they definitely failed. Failed so badly that lives were unnecessarily lost. All Democrats in Hawaii, by the way.

 

[Koda]

Here in Oregon if you call 911 your also on your own...

 

[solv3nt]

There's one road in and one road out. Apparently a power line was down on one side, and the police were diverting traffic in the other direction directly into the fire.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

...and the police were diverting traffic in the other direction directly into the fire.

Holy moly, that's always helpful. "Go ahead and head right off this cliff here..."

 

[Yarome]

There's one road in and one road out. Apparently a power line was down on one side, and the police were diverting traffic in the other direction directly into the fire.

Yeah... Kahului's a good hour away, Lahaina is an extremely small (13k-ish residents(?)) and "remote" area with only one road leading in all the way around to Kahului and Wailuku. Public services are extremely limited and any help from the "big city" isn't anything like most US cities. Kahului and Wailuku together are maybe about three times the size of Lahaina(?).... so.... not a lot of folk!

I don't really know what peoples perceptions are as to what resources they might actually have available to help themselves, but any real assistance has to come in from off island.

 

[solv3nt]

Yeah... Kahului's a good hour away, Lahaina is an extremely small (13k-ish residents(?)) and "remote" area with only one road leading in all the way around to Kahului and Wailuku. Public services are extremely limited and any help from the "big city" isn't anything like most US cities. Kahului and Wailuku together are maybe about three times the size of Lahaina(?).... so.... not a lot of folk!

I don't really know what peoples perceptions are as to what resources they might actually have available to help themselves, but any real assistance has to come in from off island.

Exactly. Hawaii is more than 2000 miles from anything with any real resources. Everything comes in on an airplane or a barge. I'm not entirely sure why the police weren't communicating with radios, but they should have been aware of where the fire was spreading. That said, before I pile onto the blue lights too much, they did have 50MPH+ winds.

 

[bumpus]

Blackrock will buy it all up for pennies on the dollar.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Why did so many people have to die? Where was the emergency management? Performance absolutely sucked. We'll wait and see if there is any accountability for this disaster (don't hold your breath). Politicians will blame the underlings, but performance starts at the top, and they definitely failed. Failed so badly that lives were unnecessarily lost. All Democrats in Hawaii, by the way.

I heard they didn't use the emergency warning sirens because an endangered amoeba was living on one.
It's really rather simple.

 

[Yarome]

Exactly. Hawaii is more than 2000 miles from anything with any real resources. Everything comes in on an airplane or a barge. I'm not entirely sure why the police weren't communicating with radios, but they should have been aware of where the fire was spreading. That said, before I pile onto the blue lights too much, they did have 50MPH+ winds.

Right or wrong... small town mentality... when you're a cop and YOUR home, family, friends and neighbors are under immanent and immediate threat... it's pretty understandable for human nature to kick with an uncontrollable desire to "protect your own"... vs... in that moment, staying focused on your duty in a futile attempt to direct the fleeing mobs to "safety"... especially when you have no idea where "safe" is...

 

[joken]

This is in part what to expect if SHTF here. God help people living in large cities.

Local residents in Hawaii's Maui are claiming they are being looted and robbed at gunpoint after catastrophic fires ravaged parts of the island.

The wildfires in Maui have become the deadliest in modern US history and have so far led to the deaths of 96 people, apart from widespread devastation of property.

And now locals have said they are growing increasingly desperate for effective local leadership to step up and take control of the emergency response amid accusations of an increase in crime.

They are annoyed that the leadership has been lax and not really stepping up, leaving residents to rise to the occasion and take reigns into their own hands.

As rescue teams traverse the island, delivering essential supplies such as water, food and first aid, reports said locals are now taking matters in their own hands to address the situation.

"There's some police presence. There's some small military presence, but at night people are being robbed at gunpoint," Matt Robb, co-owner of a Lahaina bar called The Dirty Monkey was quoted as saying by Business Insider.

 

[Yarome]

".....but at night people are being robbed at gunpoint," Matt Robb, co-owner of a Lahaina bar called The Dirty Monkey was quoted as saying by Business Insider.

PShhhh... Fake news!! Giffords gives Hawaii an A- and 5th best state in the nation for gun safety. Everyone knows criminals and normally good people in desperate times obey laws, too.

What's sad is anti-2A folks will use it to call for stricter laws. Hopefully though some Hawaiians will start to question the choices they made about all those politicians and laws they voted for... leaving themselves victims when it actually matters.

What's sadder though is many people are perfectly content to be victims. Even at the expense of keeping food in their families mouths and clothes on their children's backs.

"No property is worth killing/dying over", right? Even when your survival depends on it? Ohh... right... the gooberment will take care of you. I forgot.

 

[solv3nt]

PShhhh... Fake news!! Giffords gives Hawaii an A- and 5th best state in the nation for gun safety. Everyone knows criminals and normally good people in desperate times obey laws, too.

What's sad is anti-2A folks will use it to call for stricter laws. Hopefully though some Hawaiians will start to question the choices they made about all those politicians and laws they voted for... leaving themselves victims when it actually matters.

What's sadder though is many people are perfectly content to be victims. Even at the expense of keeping food in their families mouths and clothes on their children's backs.

"No property is worth killing/dying over", right? Even when your survival depends on it? Ohh... right... the gooberment will take care of you. I forgot.

They won't. I worked in the Building Department for a short stint, and the old timers there would complain about how their tax dollars would go to some handout. I laughed and told them what they were complaining about is party platform issues, not even some random pet project.

At some point, Hawaiians were told to vote "D", and they never looked back.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I'm curious how bad the insurance companies are going to screw everyone over.

The same way its always done, hire more lawyers. Insurance Companies are just another business. Like all of them they are there for one reason, to make money. Unlike the gov. they can't print money. For all the money an insurance Co. pays out it has to make it back in fee's. Many love to hate on insurance but then want magic money to fall from the sky. Only way that happens is if you want to get rid of insurance Companies and have government take over and provide insurance. Many have tried that and the results are just as anyone knew they would be, a mess. Yet people will ask for it again.

When Kilauea destroyed ~700 homes in that last big eruption the only insurance that agreed to cover those homes refused to pay for at least a year while a class action lawsuit had to be brought against them.

I suspect it will be more of the same

Lloyd’s reverses denials, pays Kilauea insurance claims | Honolulu Star-Advertiser

After a tough year, Big Island residents Philip and Lunel Haysmer cried when they got the news.

www.staradvertiser.com

The big danger in HI is that the town will be swallowed up under eminent domain. These family homes have been owned for generations , and at todays prices how many can afford to rebuild? So the city or state takes the property. The owners' families will only get the value of a destroyed vacant lot. DR

Blackrock will buy it all up for pennies on the dollar.

Deal with insurance being butts; or let State gobble up land, or sell property to realtors looking to develop?

Seems real estate developers are already offering to buy the properties... from Facebook; edit;FYI HAPAHI org is a "progressive" left/social justice/enviro nut group that very likely voted the same Party that keeps harming them

 

[ma96782]

Start at 4:30

Awwww.....Come On Man.
Is Maui even a part of the USA?








Is that you Brandon?

Aloha, Mark

 

[kmk1012]

Start at 4:30

Awwww.....Come On Man.
Is Maui even a part of the USA?








Is that you Brandon?

Aloha, Mark

Last time I was in Hawaii I saw so many locals wearing shirts that said "Hawaiian by birth, American by force". They may not like the mainland but sure are needing us now and I hope they get the help they need. The Santiam fires a couple years back did some major damage to several towns near us and it was not even newsworthy. FEMA eventually stepped in but the locals were left alone to defend their property from all those scum bums looting.