Has the NRA changed sides?

[longcolt]

It's called "CONTROLLED OPPOSITION" - do just enough good to be considered credible, then buckle when something really important comes along... GOA - No compromise.

I support GOA also but they are less than 800,000 members and the "No Compromise" attitude sets off all the bells and whistles in Congress and they get very little done.

I see the Second Amendment Foundation as one of the most effective and fasting growing, out of the Seattle. The USCCA is small but cranking up members and working to promote the second amendment in a strong way also.

I always advise folks to pick a gun rights group and back them as best you can. Then lets get all the gun rights groups to join hands and sing the praises of the second amendment together as one larger group. United we stand divided we are not nearly as effective.

 

[Atroxus]

It's called "CONTROLLED OPPOSITION" - do just enough good to be considered credible, then buckle when something really important comes along... GOA - No compromise.

I am curious, what have they accomplished recently to further 2nd amendment rights? Is there specific issue(s) where the NRA has failed to advance our cause but GOA has succeeded?

In my experience though taking an all or nothing approach to an argument will get "nothing" more often than it gets "everything". I don't see a problem with achieving 2nd amendment goals in bits and pieces as long as progress is being made in the right direction. As the saying goes a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, but thats just my 2 cents.

 

[spiritof76]

No compromise is the only way to go. We can compromise ALL our rights away (as it seems we are doing) in the name of political expediency or safety - with each compromise we lose freedoms big and small. I don't want to bash the NRA, they do a lot of good things, but I am deeply suspicious of them because of the compromises they have made. In my mind, there is no room for discussion on the constitution and bill of rights. They are not "living" documents that require constant interpretation and re-interpretation. The founding fathers said what they meant and meant what they said. The language is crystal clear. We are in the crappy position we are today because of a long series of compromises and back room deals. Screw compromise. A lot of us took an oath to support and defend the constitution, including every one of the politicians that are compromising our childrens lives away. "Shall not be infringed" means "shall not be infringed". Have the guts to stand up and say so, if we don't - they will strangle us a little bit at a time, with each little bitty compromise. MY 2 CENTS.

 

[Atroxus]

No compromise is the only way to go. We can compromise ALL our rights away (as it seems we are doing) in the name of political expediency or safety - with each compromise we lose freedoms big and small. I don't want to bash the NRA, they do a lot of good things, but I am deeply suspicious of them because of the compromises they have made. In my mind, there is no room for discussion on the constitution and bill of rights. They are not "living" documents that require constant interpretation and re-interpretation. The founding fathers said what they meant and meant what they said. The language is crystal clear. We are in the crappy position we are today because of a long series of compromises and back room deals. Screw compromise. A lot of us took an oath to support and defend the constitution, including every one of the politicians that are compromising our childrens lives away. "Shall not be infringed" means "shall not be infringed". Have the guts to stand up and say so, if we don't - they will strangle us a little bit at a time, with each little bitty compromise. MY 2 CENTS.

You still haven't answered my questions though. You yourself admit the NRA does a lot of good things, but what has the GOA accomplished with it's no compromise approach? As far as I know even with their compromises the NRA has accomplished more than any other 2nd amendment organization. If you have information to the contrary I would love to see it. If you can show me a more effective organization than the NRA then that is who will get my future donations/membership dues. What matters to me is results.

 

[fingolfen]

No compromise is the only way to go. We can compromise ALL our rights away (as it seems we are doing) in the name of political expediency or safety - with each compromise we lose freedoms big and small. I don't want to bash the NRA, they do a lot of good things, but I am deeply suspicious of them because of the compromises they have made. In my mind, there is no room for discussion on the constitution and bill of rights. They are not "living" documents that require constant interpretation and re-interpretation. The founding fathers said what they meant and meant what they said. The language is crystal clear. We are in the crappy position we are today because of a long series of compromises and back room deals. Screw compromise. A lot of us took an oath to support and defend the constitution, including every one of the politicians that are compromising our childrens lives away. "Shall not be infringed" means "shall not be infringed". Have the guts to stand up and say so, if we don't - they will strangle us a little bit at a time, with each little bitty compromise. MY 2 CENTS.

I apprecite the strong stance - but as others have said - what has GOA accomplished other than making a lot of noise? GOA tried to tie guns to the health care debate with varying degrees of validity but very little if any success.

As we've seen in Congress - just because a group of people stands up and says "NO - we're not going to compromise" - doesn't mean that the bad legislation actually stops. While their actions may please the base, the net effect is it generally just puts them outside the process. In a Republic, the majority will often over-rule the minority. At that point the minority has only a few choices - they can continue to scream "no compromise", but then the majority is just going to run roughshod over the minority. Alternately they can try to temper the majority's proposals. Then there's always the options of challenging the majority's policies in court. Both approaches have clear risks - but the smart play is to do both.

The vast majority of the "compromises" that the NRA is lambasted for come during times where those supporting our firearm rights were in a very clear minority. See the following graph showing the national desire for "more strict" vs. "less strict" gun laws:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/123596/In-U.S.-Record-Low-Support-Stricter-Gun-Laws.aspx

Also see this graph showing the level of support for national hand gun bans:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/117361/Recent-Shootings-Gun-Control-Support-Fading.aspx

When you're in the majority - "no compromise" works better. You have the political clout, will, and votes to craft policy. When you're in the minority - you're just going to get trampled.

If I look at firearm laws and attitudes in the U.S., we're in better shape now than we've been in decades:

The 1994 ban has expired, and only the extreme left is willing to touch it because of what happened to the balance of power when that ban actually passed.

More Americans recognize and support the fundamental right to keep and bear arms than have in decades (and the trend continues to move higher)

We have a Supreme Court decision affirming that the Second Amendment affirms an individual right (this should have been a no-brainer, but the "collective right" interpretation had held sway for decades).

We have another case which has already been argued which will most likely affirm that the Second Amendment is incorporated under the 14th Amendment.

I ask again - what has GOA done to advance any of those causes? What are their measurable accomplishments? NRA mobilization is widely credited with helping change the balance of power in the 1994 election cycle. The NRA has driven both of the recent Supreme Court cases. In short, the NRA has done more to protect our firearm rights in the last two decades than GOA. I appreciate GOA and what they stand for, but I also recognize that their very stance limits their impact. Conversely, the NRA has played a very shrewd long-term game, combining education, lobbying, and court cases.

 

[elsullo]

Year after year GOA sends me fund-raising letters and raffles, but not a bit of information as to what they actually DO or what they have accomplished. Is there a newsletter or something? Why don't they even offer me one if there is one? To me it seems that GOA exists only to raise funds, and to bad-mouth the NRA, in effect WEAKENING Second Amendment support rather than furthering it. So, whose side are they really on?.....................elsullo

 

[husker]

The NRA will support a man like this? Are they selling the USA out too?

http://www.freedomslighthouse.com/2010/04/harry-reid-tells-crowd-democrats-ready.html

 

[U201491]

I support GOA also but they are less than 800,000 members and the "No Compromise" attitude sets off all the bells and whistles in Congress and they get very little done.

I see the Second Amendment Foundation as one of the most effective and fasting growing, out of the Seattle. The USCCA is small but cranking up members and working to promote the second amendment in a strong way also.

I always advise folks to pick a gun rights group and back them as best you can. Then lets get all the gun rights groups to join hands and sing the praises of the second amendment together as one larger group. United we stand divided we are not nearly as effective.

Support ALL pro second amendment groups and we'll get a lot more accomplished. The "which one is best or
which one is worse" only divides us. Supporting all and the PRO 2nd side wins. Any division and the anti's start feeding frenzys. Personally I will stand behind any lefitimate pro second amendment organization. You do not have to agree with 100% of their methods, but they
all help to acheive the protection of the Constitution.
Just beware of the fake fronts that that anti's have tried and fully investigate any you do support. Then do not let the organizations do all for you. Send letters to your legislators yourself as well. Make your numbers known and continue to do so right through to the ballot boxes.
This battle has been going on for decades and will be going on for many many more. So don't ever stop the fight.
The one and only thing that will harm America is APATHY and that is far too prevalent today. Don't let the other guy do all the fighting and get into the battle on a personal level. Then get behind every letitimate organization you can. Their numbers (you) all add up to make legislators sit up and take notice.

 

[Atroxus]

Support ALL pro second amendment groups and we'll get a lot more accomplished. The "which one is best or
which one is worse" only divides us. Supporting all and the PRO 2nd side wins. Any division and the anti's start feeding frenzys. Personally I will stand behind any lefitimate pro second amendment organization. You do not have to agree with 100% of their methods, but they
all help to acheive the protection of the Constitution.
Just beware of the fake fronts that that anti's have tried and fully investigate any you do support. Then do not let the organizations do all for you. Send letters to your legislators yourself as well. Make your numbers known and continue to do so right through to the ballot boxes.
This battle has been going on for decades and will be going on for many many more. So don't ever stop the fight.
The one and only thing that will harm America is APATHY and that is far too prevalent today. Don't let the other guy do all the fighting and get into the battle on a personal level. Then get behind every letitimate organization you can. Their numbers (you) all add up to make legislators sit up and take notice.

Personally the amount of money I can afford to donate towards 2nd amendment groups is pretty limited, so I try to get the most bang for my buck. For me that means until I see another organization that is more effective my donations will be going exclusively to the NRA. Other than that I agree with pretty much everything you said though.

 

[U201491]

Personally the amount of money I can afford to donate towards 2nd amendment groups is pretty limited, so I try to get the most bang for my buck. For me that means until I see another organization that is more effective my donations will be going exclusively to the NRA. Other than that I agree with pretty much everything you said though.

We sure know that one well.
Since we retired the wallet is pretty skinny
It is not just the money though.
There are many many ways that we can all help.
Getting others to join a Pro group and help build memberships, write letters to support or oppose current bills, help educate the ill informed anti's and talking to folks about getting their kids into shooting sports and keep the next generations from being brain washed from the socialist school systems. Get onto a local school board and get the agendas changed. There are so many ways that we can all help without always having to have the checkbook out.
These organizations need money to accomplish the bills and lobbying, but they also need all the other support they can get as well. The battle gets very tiring after decades, but that is what the left counts on. Wearing us down and that cannot ever allowed to happen.
"Semper Fi" in every way.

 

[CEF1959]

As an NRA Life Member, all I can say is that if you are to the right of the NRA on gun issues, you are off the spectrum of reasonable political discourse. Don't forget to wipe the spittle off your chins and get your rabies shots before going out in public.

 

[Trlsmn]

As an NRA Life Member, all I can say is that if you are to the right of the NRA on gun issues, you are off the spectrum of reasonable political discourse. Don't forget to wipe the spittle off your chins and get your rabies shots before going out in public.

Taking a no compromise purely constitution stance to the 2nd is not rabid it's the correct way to demand our rights. You seem to feel compromise is the way to keep our rights? Compromise only makes our rights disappear slowly. Once you give into a compromise that is never the end, then they want to take away more and we start the bargaining from the already compromised position and on an on until there is nothing left.

CEF1959 have you ever held a job in the private sector since college?

 

[zeezee]

As an NRA Life Member, all I can say is that if you are to the right of the NRA on gun issues, you are off the spectrum of reasonable political discourse. Don't forget to wipe the spittle off your chins and get your rabies shots before going out in public.

Life time nra member? My a$$ You might be paying for that right but you sure as heck are not a loyal supporter. And while those of us on the right side, read the correct side, wait in line for our rabies shot, how about you dust your knees off and wash your mouth out, I can smell you from here.

 

[Father of four]

Don't forget to wipe the spittle off your chins and get your rabies shots before going out in public.

Again, the filth that comes from your comments are a statement about you.

Are you directing that attack to all the right?

 

[CEF1959]

You guys are too easy.

 

[Trlsmn]

You guys are too easy.

So I guess the answer to my question is no then!

 

[CEF1959]

So I guess the answer to my question is no then!

Wrong. As usual.

 

[longcolt]

Michael, is that you?

Michael Moore, pro-gun? I don't think so.

 

[CEF1959]

You guys are disturbingly obsessed with me on a weird personal level. Does your wife know about this? Does your shrink?

My point (again): The NRA has a long-standing tradition. I'm proud of it and have been a life member for more than 10 years. I support its political aims, including an expansive reading of the 2A. If you think the NRA has "gone soft" and "joined the other side" I think that says a lot more about how fringe-right you have become than it says about the NRA.

You don't HAVE to be a fringe-right-nut-job to be a strong gun rights advocate. You can be, as we've seen. But you don't HAVE to be, as the NRA has shown. And when you post and behave like a fringe-right-nut-job (as opposed to a solid and reasonable defender of gun rights), you hurt gun rights.

 

[Trlsmn]

You guys are disturbingly obsessed with me on a weird personal level. Does your wife know about this? Does your shrink?

Come now lets be honest CEF you have aggressively been throwing hand grenades into threads for days just to watch the explosions. You can't then wonder why you would then garner the attention you are so eagerly seeking.

Me thinks maybe you're projecting with the "needs to see a shrink comment!"