National Gun-Control Median?

[druiseeker]

I think its time to revisit this issue. What would be a "common sense " compromise on the gun control issue? With all the attention recently being brought to bear by the media, legislation WILL come out of this. The question, what would be less offensive to the "people of the gun"? Can we make it something effective for a change? What would YOU agree to?

My opinion is that anyone who is walking free should be able to own & carry a gun, which also has the implication that anyone who can't should be in lockup and/or getting inpatient mental health treatment. While I recognize this is unreasonable, especially with all our prisons and jails being full, I still prefer partial disarmament over everyone loosing their rights. How do we make that happen?

I firmly believe that any effective legislation would have to address WHO can't have guns, not the guns themselves. It should always have some method to get gun rights restored that doesn't require hiring a lawyer.

1.) Fix the NICS system. However that happens, it needs to be fixed. Its currently garbage.

2.) Universal background checks. I don't want them, but I think they're going to happen at the federal level sometime soon. I don't like the way Oregon and Washington implemented them. I shouldn't have to pay a middleman to sell my private property. If the goal is keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and the insane, I'd much prefer the establishment/requirement of the use of a self-service background check/verification web portal. If someone has a CCP or something like an Illinois FOID cart, it should be easy to establish some sort of verification system. Anything else is just pushing more unnecessary government in our lives.

Does anybody agree on 1 and/or 2 above? If not, why and what would you change/add? With the currently political climate, something has to give or we WILL loose rights.

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[MasterChief]

Enforce the laws we have... first


Kinda like immigration.....enforce, and certain issues don't become a problem....

 

[druiseeker]

Enforce the laws we have... first


Kinda like immigration.....enforce, and certain issues don't become a problem....

I agree that enforcing current laws would fix a lot if not all of the problems we're experiencing. Right now the popular social issue of choice is gun control. If that conversation isn't guided... My experience is that many people who're uneducated on the issue will think the default answer is to take guns away or to do an assault weapon ban. Even if they don't know what an assault weapon is in the first place. Politicians need media air time look like they're "doing something" the people (really the media) care about.

 

[Heyjoe]

Enforce the laws we have... first


Kinda like immigration.....enforce, and certain issues don't become a problem....

But how would we implement that??

Edit: Sarcasm

 

[druiseeker]

But how would we implement that??

I think implementing that is what politicians SHOULD be doing. I'd rather not have the conversation become that we should be doing away with the 2nd Amendment. I'd rather not go there.

 

[Koda]

I think its time to revisit this issue. What would be a "common sense " compromise on the gun control issue?

you cant "compromise" with someone who has nothing to give up in return...
We've been "compromising" our rights away since the first gun control law was passed in 1813 prohibiting law abiding citizens from concealed carry.

The background check system is a broken wreck, and a registration scheme in disguise. If it wasn't it would work and everyone would be on board with it. Make model and serial number has nothing to do with a persons background, its already illegal for prohibited persons to posses guns.

 

[druiseeker]

The background check system is a broken wreck, and a registration scheme in disguise. If it wasn't it would work and everyone would be on board with it. Make model and serial number has nothing to do with a persons background, its already illegal for prohibited persons to posses guns.

The problem is that there is nothing enforcing/preventing prohibited persons from transferring firearms in a private sale. Then what about a law that makes it a requirement to establish the legality of the person to trade said firearm and removing the requirement to provide make model and serial number?

you cant "compromise" with someone who has nothing to give up in return...

We want to keep our right to keep and bear arms. The opposition wants guns kept from people who shouldn't have them. Yes they want more, but we can both agree that we don't want wack jobs and violent felons possessing firearms. It shouldn't be difficult to make that happen.

 

[Koda]

The problem is that there is nothing enforcing/preventing prohibited persons from transferring firearms in a private sale. Then what about a law that makes it a requirement to establish the legality of the person to trade said firearm and removing the requirement to provide make model and serial number?

thats not true, its already against the law for prohibited persons from possessing guns. The issue is preventing them from acquiring them anyways from private sales. The solution is keeping these people behind bars if we cant trust them in society with guns. The current background check policy is failing us because it doesn't address the criminal person, it addresses the gun by registering it.

We want to keep our right to keep and bear arms. The opposition wants guns kept from people who shouldn't have them. Yes they want more, but we can both agree that we don't want wack jobs and violent felons possessing firearms. It shouldn't be difficult to make that happen.

well if they want more, then why are you considering "compromising" with their policies? Of course nobody wants wack jobs to possess guns. The reason its difficult is because they want more, if they really cared about wack jobs, they would work on helping them recover or keeping them behind bars.

 

[druiseeker]

The issue is I don't like their policies. With current political realities, I'd rather draft our own fix for what's broken. What we have isn't working and it'll come to bite us in the bubblegum if it isn't fixed. What I'd like is some measure to fix what currently doesn't work while still retaining the gun rights of law abiding citizens. The anti's are up in arms and something will give. I'd rather that be something we put in place.

 

[druiseeker]

Everyone knows the saying "Don't fix what ain't broken". Well this is. My ideas might be bad, but if they are, what else is might work?

 

[Koda]

The issue is I don't like their policies. With current political realities, I'd rather draft our own fix for what's broken. What we have isn't working and it'll come to bite us in the bubblegum if it isn't fixed. What I'd like is some measure to fix what currently doesn't work while still retaining the gun rights of law abiding citizens. The anti's are up in arms and something will give. I'd rather that be something we put in place.

They wont listen to us. The NRA has been telling them for years the background check system is flawed and mental health is the issue.

NRA-ILA | Background Checks | NICS

NRA-ILA | Mental Health and Firearms

 

[Koda]

Everyone knows the saying "Don't fix what ain't broken". Well this is. My ideas might be bad, but if they are, what else is might work?

we need criminal law reform to keep violent offenders behind bars permanently instead of letting them go, we shouldn't have repeat offenders. We need to bring back mental institutions to keep those in need off the streets. We need better programs and resources to prevent people from becoming criminals... help them. We need resources for 1) domestic violence victims to turn to in emergencies instead of removing due process and 2) actually convicting domestic abusers. In short, the solution is to focus on the person not the gun.
The gun control lobby is a billion dollar industry mostly thru donations from wealthy doners like Bloomberg, if he spent half his money on what I just mentioned violent crime would drop like a wet sock... gotta ask what is it they really want, a disarmed society because that doesn't play well with their political agenda.

 

[awshoot]

The problem is that there is nothing enforcing/preventing prohibited persons from transferring firearms in a private sale. Then what about a law that makes it a requirement to establish the legality of the person to trade said firearm and removing the requirement to provide make model and serial number? ....

This sounds like a licensing scheme. Nobody needs a license to go to a church (or not go), to speak their mind (or not speak), etc. etc. Setting up a licensing scheme turns a right into a privilege that can (and will be) denied -- heck the right IS denied until a person acquires the license. I'm not for that.

Honestly, I get what you are saying. There has been such a media frenzy that many people are worked up into a serious froth about these issues and it is inevitable that there will be legislation. Our best hope is probably to support essentially meaningless legislation (thinking of things like bumpstock bans here) so that the politicians can say they did "something" and the antis can be somewhat mollified. That's probably best case scenario for pro2A people. The counter argument to any acquiescence at all is the entirety of CA -- it makes the slippery slope argument pretty salient.

 

[Koda]

Then what about a law that makes it a requirement to establish the legality of the person to trade said firearm and removing the requirement to provide make model and serial number?

actually OFF proposed just that as an amendment to Oregons UBC law that was passed back in 2014 to allow CHL holders to be exempt but the antis wouldn't "compromise" on that and in fact ignored that proposal preventing it from getting attention in that legislative session.

hows that for a "compromise"

 

[Jcon268]

we need criminal law reform to keep violent offenders behind bars permanently instead of letting them go, we shouldn't have repeat offenders. We need to bring back mental institutions to keep those in need off the streets. We need better programs and resources to prevent people from becoming criminals... help them. We need resources for 1) domestic violence victims to turn to in emergencies instead of removing due process and 2) actually convicting domestic abusers. In short, the solution is to focus on the person not the gun.
The gun control lobby is a billion dollar industry mostly thru donations from wealthy doners like Bloomberg, if he spent half his money on what I just mentioned violent crime would drop like a wet sock... gotta ask what is it they really want, a disarmed society because that doesn't play well with their political agenda.

Most of these shooters have no prior criminal history. They just snap one day. This is great precedent for controlling guns because you can't anticipate who will become the next mass murderer. Or can you? Are there signs of a killer-to-be? Where has our system failed us before? I read that the Virginia Tech shooter was ordered a psychiatric evaluation by the school. They assessed him to be only a moderate risk and therefore assigned him outpatient care.. outpatients were allowed to still own guns, inpatients were not. The problem, it seems to me, is that the system doesn't analyze psychological disorders aggressively enough to be able to intervene before the downward spiral has occurred.

 

[druiseeker]

Are there any mental health professionals listening? I don't know enough about what could possibly be a reasonable change to how things are currently done.

 

[Jcon268]

The attention has to be shifted away from AR15s. Which is going to be damn near impossible at this point because they've already sunk their claws in. The attention needs to be focused on what is truly the problem.... chemistry in the brain and body... which happens to be altered by prescription medications that they are trying to get nearly every normal kid hooked on. I still remember my parents threatening to pull me out of grade school because they were demanding to put me on Ritalin. Needless to say I didn't take it. Heard a lot of similar stories from peers and this was over 20 years ago.

 

[druiseeker]

The attention needs to be on the criminally insane and the felons. The 1 percent who get through the cracks...

In one of the earlier NRA links, the ATF/DOJ were quoted as saying that 79 percent of criminals had acquired their firearms from "off the street" sales, "black market, "criminal acts," and relatives/friends. With the DOJ saying 50 percent of criminals getting them from straw purchasers (which is a kind of private sale). "Relatives" should know better and be criminally liable for knowingly giving a gun to a felon. The whole reason for the AFT to exist is for the "black market". As for "criminal acts"? Toss 'em in prison and throw away the key. If I had to pick something to fix or legislate, a requirement for "off the street" sellers and "straw purchasers" to verify the recipients eligibility is a good one. The only way I can think of doing that is via a self-service portal for NICS or an online verification of a CHL.

 

[druiseeker]

The attention needs to be on the criminally insane and the felons. The 1 percent'ers who get through the cracks is a much larger problem. That needs an overhaul of our whole education and justice systems.

 

[druiseeker]

Moving attention away from the AR platform needs a single, concise counter argument that would make sense to the public. People have been saying its the mentally ill over and over again. Without a solution, saying its the fault of the mentally ill isn't helping from an argumentative standpoint. What's needed is input from the mental health community as a whole and I don't see that happening.