Feeding their Gun Control Agenda

Longwalkhome · May 24, 2023

About 2 minutes long. It's Fettermans assistant saying Fetter and would ban 2nd A.

Koda · May 24, 2023

raftman said:
If there's no reason to believe such a thing is the case, why posit, without evidence, that it may be, going so far as to suggest it's actually the more likely explanation?

"I'm a gun owner, but…"

Lost me.... Suggest what is the more likely explaination?

raftman · May 24, 2023

Koda said:
Lost me.... Suggest what is the more likely explaination?

Let's take it out of the abstract and back to the reality of the situation in question: The harshest gun control measure in the country (M114) passed in Oregon. It was quickly taken to court in Harney County (a rural, VERY pro-gun leaning county), and its implementation was frozen. The Oregon legislature then got together and decided to revive/rescue this measure in the form of (the nearly identical but actually worse) bill 348, this time stipulating that if anyone challenges this bill, it can only be done in (the generally more amenable to gun control) Marion County. The most sensible interpretation, the one most consistent with established patterns and available evidence, is that this was done to reduce the likelihood of a similar fate for 348 as was suffered by 114. Our intellectually dishonest (or perhaps comically naive and ignorant) gun control advocate here instead posited (without evidence or any research on the topic) that this explanation is an exercise in tinfoil hattery and the legislature is likely thinking about how how well equipped the courthouses are or some such thing.

RX-79G · May 24, 2023

raftman said:
If there's no reason to believe such a thing is the case, why posit, without evidence, that it may be, going so far as to suggest it's actually the more likely explanation?

"I'm a gun owner, but…"

There's no reason to believe that a law that Oregon made might be like a previous Oregon law? Really?

What I did was ask if there was a possibility, not say there is. And anyone was welcome to answer.

raftman · May 24, 2023

RX-79G said:
There's no reason to believe that a law that Oregon made might be like a previous Oregon law? Really?

No. Not really. You've provided no evidence that such a previous Oregon law exists. Your argument is, "it's more likely like some potential other previous Oregon law that I can't cite any example of."

OneArgus · May 24, 2023

Looking at the Original OP post and then the transfer of the conversation to Firearms, can be lumped in a simple way.
Those in influential power, do not care about the consequences. They care about the power.
Oregon in the last 25 years has given up more gun rights then it has retained.
So if we look at criminalizing firearm owners?
Its simple, slowly take away rights by pushing people into defying the laws, then arrest them and take all their power away.
And in turn antiguns assimilate that power and gain that voice.
It happened with SB941, near over night people were arrested, and even some say set up.
In Oregon the loud and aggressive ways some of the Pro-Gun groups, ( not forums) allow the ability show the intolerance of Us, legal owners.
We have seen when it comes to gun rights, aggressive, loud and intimidating serves no purpose.
The capital Protest/Rallies have been good and bad. And no matter how good one tried to be, if people want you viewed as evil?
They will do all they can to show you are the problem.

monkeybutler · May 24, 2023

Mikej said:
Another thread shot to hell by a single troll.

It's okay I don't like kids who read good either.

Maybe you can ask him from now on to post only bumper stickerish slogans in line with your thinking, rather than raising fair points in a dsicussion among adults.

Again, this kind of thin tribalism is why we keep losing.

raftman · May 24, 2023

"We're losing because we won't make concessions to the people who won't make any concessions to us."

micdude · May 24, 2023

CamoDeafie said:
We have had the same number of Representatives now, as we did in 1910. Yet the population has more than tripled.

4 Senators were added to the Senate when Hawaii and Alaska became States. But since then, the population of Puerto Rico has grown that it can become a State, and they have no representation in Congress;

And... the House won't consider increasing its size to get a more proportional representation of the population.

I'd say it's less where "most people are" and more "why isn't Congress changing to better fit the population"?

435 Representatives for over 331 million people.

That works out to an average of 760,000+ per Representative.

After 1910, 435 Representatives for 92,228,496 people. That worked out to 212,019 per Representative.

Tell me again, how is keeping Congress small "fair" to the population???

Edit. If we kept the proportional ratio of 1910, we would have had no less than 1,561 Representatives in Congress.

Do you really want to pay for more corrupt career politicians

granted there are a few good one but I would rather have term limits than more politicians.

RX-79G · May 24, 2023

raftman said:
"We're losing because we won't make concessions to the people who won't make any concessions to us."

"We're losing because we give everything away for free and control no part of the process."

CamoDeafie · May 24, 2023

micdude said:
Do you really want to pay for more corrupt career politicians granted there are a few good one but I would rather have term limits than more politicians.

Do you really want to be just another statistic out of 760,000+ people for your one Rep? I'd rather be one of 212,000 people, at the least with 2 year terms and smaller Congressional Districts, we aren't gonna get run roughshod by the urban centers over and over just because they have more people.

Edit. Why not just reduce House of Reps to 100, that'd be fair right?

micdude · May 24, 2023

CamoDeafie said:
Do you really want to be just another statistic out of 760,000+ people for your one Rep? I'd rather be one of 212,000 people, at the least with 2 year terms and smaller Congressional Districts, we aren't gonna get run roughshod by the urban centers over and over just because they have more people.

Edit. Why not just reduce House of Reps to 100, that'd be fair right?

I don't know there's bigger fish to fry then adding more career politicians.

Koda · May 24, 2023

RX-79G said:
"We're losing because we give everything away for free and control no part of the process."

^^this, and every time it happens we go down ranting "shall not infringe".....

CamoDeafie · May 24, 2023

micdude said:
I don't know there's bigger fish to fry then adding more career politicians.

I'm not so sure. The problem we are having is that far too few, if any politicians are held accountable for their actions in bringing up and passing and writing laws that facially violates the US Constitution... because on average, a population the size of Louisville is being represented by one person, in the House. You can write letters. You can call their staff. You can email them. It's just one out of 760,000 averaged out, per House Rep; is it any wonder they don't listen to their "constituents"?

slimmer13 · May 24, 2023

RX-79G said:
"We're losing because we give everything away for free and control no part of the process."

Koda said:
^^this, and every time it happens we go down ranting "shall not infringe".....

That's like saying "since you're going to try and rape me, maybe it'll be better for me if we agree to just the tip, and you have to pull out."

You're not gaining anything and you're still getting bubblegumed in the bubblegum.

micdude · May 24, 2023

CamoDeafie said:
I'm not so sure. The problem we are having is that far too few, if any politicians are held accountable for their actions in bringing up and passing and writing laws that facially violates the US Constitution... because on average, a population the size of Louisville is being represented by one person, in the House. You can write letters. You can call their staff. You can email them. It's just one out of 760,000 averaged out, per House Rep; is it any wonder they don't listen to their "constituents"?

They don't listen because they know where the money is and it's not in gun rights at all but in those well funded anti gun groups like Bloomberg and every town.

Koda · May 24, 2023

slimmer13 said:
That's like saying "since you're going to try and rape me, maybe it'll be better for me if we agree to just the tip, and you have to pull out."

You're not gaining anything and you're still getting bubblegumed in the bubblegum.

disagree, weve already proven here how all rights can and are regulated by laws. Shouting "shall not infringe" is really saying there should be no laws when thats not the case.

Being part of the process is not giving in, laws will be made regardless of analogies, being part of the process of the laws is controlling the process.

slimmer13 · May 24, 2023

Koda said:
disagree, weve already proven here how all rights can and are regulated by laws. Shouting "shall not infringe" is really saying there should be no laws when thats not the case.

Being part of the process is not giving in, laws will be made regardless of analogies, being part of the process of the laws is controlling the process.

For some of us, it was already hashed out and decided a couple hundred years ago. There's nothing else to talk about. Everything since then has been an infringement. Sorry you don't like that word.

"Controlling the process" of the theft of our rights is a non starter. There's a line in the sand for all of us, you can negotiate right up to it if you want to, but every time they will step over it and force you to draw a new line until there's nothing left.

RX-79G · May 24, 2023

slimmer13 said:
For some of us, it was already hashed out and decided a couple hundred years ago. There's nothing else to talk about. Everything since then has been an infringement. Sorry you don't like that word.

"Controlling the process" of the theft of our rights is a non starter. There's a line in the sand for all of us, you can negotiate right up to it if you want to, but every time they will step over it and force you to draw a new line until there's nothing left.

Than join the other losers while people try to help you despite your lazy approach.