'Firmageddon': Researchers find 1.1 million acres of dead trees in Oregon

[Cavedweller]

In the SW part of Orygun redwoods are not uncommon. Some people are planting Sequoia groves. There is one at the end of my private road and a few scattered here and there on it - they were planted. I planted one in the middle of my driveway island and it did well for about 7 years - growing from knee high to 12' high, then it turned brown and died. Not sure why - it was healthy and strong.

Sequoia gigantia have been planted as ornamentals in Western Oregon since at least the late 1800s. Numerous large specimens can be seen in both Salem and Corvallis, particularly on the OSU campus, and elsewhere I'm sure. I have a couple in my back yard that are probably about 50 years old. They do quite well in the Willamette Valley if planted, but they will not reproduce from seed in this climate as soil and atmospheric moisture conditions are not quite right at the appropriate time.

As opposed to what decade or even century when weather never changed? It is amazing how humans fall for this. Weather has been "changing " for as long as man has kept records of it. Yet there is always a few who will fall for it because this year is different than last year.

Simply reporting one's observations that changes are taking place is not "falling" for anything. I don't think I or @nwwoodsman have expressed any hysteria over what we have seen, nor advocate anyone make lifestyle changes as a result. Personally, I don't think human activity has anything to do with it, or that we as humans can do anything to mitigate the changes, nor that we should necessarily try. But I can tell you that when I was a teenager, there was snow on Mt McGlaughlin in S Oregon all summer long. Not anymore. Saying so isn't falling for anything. So lighten up, Francis.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I've been driving I-5 at least once a month between Salem and Grants Pass for the last 22 years. I can remember not so long ago when you looked at the hills you saw nothing but green. In the last 5 years or so lots of trees have been dying. Now everywhere you look there are dead trees. I don't know if it's due to drought, climate change, or what, but there's no doubt that something is killing lots of trees.

It sure isn't from logging. They're probably diseased due to lack of logging/thinning.

 

[The Heretic]

Whatever the reason, the climate is changing and we should prepare for it.

 

[Alexx1401]

It sure isn't from logging. They're probably diseased due to lack of logging/thinning.

THAT right there is VERY often the real problem. The kooks do not want the forests managed. So soon they have massive fires that management would have made FAR less severe. Then every time another one comes along people fly in on their private jet to tell the morons its their car that is the problem. They then get back on their jet laughing at the fools who listen to them.

 

[Cavedweller]

It sure isn't from logging. They're probably diseased due to lack of logging/thinning.

THAT right there is VERY often the real problem.

There is always scattered mortality in a healthy Fir forest. The lands capacity (including the moisture available) and the amount of sunlight place an upper limit on the number of Fir trees that can be supported. This number gets smaller as the trees age and get larger. The weaker trees cannot compete and are overtopped (leading to death from reduced sunlight), or cannot get enough nutrients and water, which also leads to death. The stronger trees survive and get larger. This is why older stands have much larger trees, and those are spaced rather far apart.

A drought puts more stress on the weaker trees, and accelerates the "natural thinning" process.

Could be disease, could be insects, but something has them under stress. I don't think it is lack of precommercial thinning, tho. Over the years I've seen lots of dense second growth stands that did not suffer this kind of mortality. Maybe density combined with reduced rainfall has them under moisture stress, but trees are also dying in places where the stands are not particularly dense. Trees are dying along river banks where they should be getting plenty of water.

I majored in forestry for 3 years back in the day, so I am well aquainted with the dynamics of forest succession. It seems to me that what's been going on in the last 5 or so years is unusual, at least in my lifetime. Next time you are out driving just take a look around.

 

[Lilhigbee]

This is a likely culprit;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminated_root_rot
In my Dad's last years falling timber he had to carry fungicide and paint any stumps that showed signs of LRR. It has spread throughout Washington, northern Idaho, BC and western Oregon.

 

[Flopsweat]

Could be disease, could be insects, but something has them under stress. I don't think it is lack of precommercial thinning, tho. Over the years I've seen lots of dense second growth stands that did not suffer this kind of mortality. Maybe density combined with reduced rainfall has them under moisture stress, but trees are also dying in places where the stands are not particularly dense. Trees are dying along river banks where they should be getting plenty of water.

I majored in forestry for 3 years back in the day, so I am well aquainted with the dynamics of forest succession. It seems to me that what's been going on in the last 5 or so years is unusual, at least in my lifetime. Next time you are out driving just take a look around.

Whatever caused it, it probably wasn't the .0002 degrees increase in temperature over the last decade.

 

[The Heretic]

 

[Provincial]

This is a likely culprit;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminated_root_rot
In my Dad's last years falling timber he had to carry fungicide and paint any stumps that showed signs of LRR. It has spread throughout Washington, northern Idaho, BC and western Oregon.

One of our timber parcels butts up against a BLM 1/16 section. They have Laminated Root Rot active on that parcel, and it has spread over the property line, affecting about 40 acres. We are in the process of cutting the Fir on the affected area, and replanting with Coast Redwood. Redwood is immune to Laminated Root Rot, and after about 50 years, it should be safe to plant Fir there again, but only if the BLM controls the infestation on their land. Fir may not be a good choice by then, but in the meantime, we will have a crop of merchantable trees growing there.

 

[Member 52301]

Defoliation on EVERGREEN trees and deciduous trees can be caused by many things from disease to gypsy moths, flying sawtooth caterpillars, root rot, etc.

Long and short periods of DROUGHT, lack of sunlight and moisture (Snow, rain, ice.) since ALL forests in all TYPES of terrain and climate need to be LOGGED in a sane manner, forest fires, crazy heat and cold cycles, etc. have ruined and totally destroyed many types of trees and plants in the NW and ALL over the country.

Many years ago - back east, I had a windbreak on my land and within ONE day, a complete group of Eastern white pine trees were defoliated. IT did not strike my Colorado deep blue spruce trees, many other types of my evergreen trees and deciduous trees.

It looked like someone burned them or threw some chemical on them but with close inspection - it was due to a specific type of gypsy moths. There is another thread concerning this where I mentioned this. There were only a few green needles LEFT on them even with some pine cones attached to the branches.

NO matter how much my late husband and I tried to SAVE THEM - we could not. I can't remember the chemical spray name's now but years down the road - there was a news story where that so called SAFE chemical was exposed for being dangerous.

Green houses, conservation groups with the farm bureau and farm elevator stores said to USE IT and it was safe. We hardly ever used CHEMICALS on jack squat so I believed them. My late husband did the spraying in gear but it did not help at all in the end.

We could not save those trees! We ended up grouping the dead trees in a safe place on our land - we only owned one acre in the middle of tons of farm land/woods (NOT our land.) in the boonies, we cut down the trees, we dug up the roots, we put them ALL together and we burned all of them in one big pile. It literally made me sick to see that happen to that group of trees! My husband and 2 other Volunteer Firemen brought out the truck pumper and extra water tank to be on the safe side.

Our friends had a nursery that they started. They were in our Volunteer FD/EMT squads in the township. They lost a TON of money ($$$$$) and a ton of healthy trees to the same thing.

Years later on, my late husband and I saw some of those bugs and NASTY COBWEBS all over some beautiful hardwood trees and evergreen trees in Maine and on Cape Cod, MA close to one Air Base. We immediately knew what it was since we lived through that MESS.

Here in Montana, we are having several types of BLIGHT and other destruction of evergreen and other hardwood and softwood trees. It is all over our news and it is not just on the western side of this state too. I don't know the name of it since they have given several names and causes for the HUGE DESTRUCTION of trees. Drought, disease, bugs, climate change, etc.

A HUGE LACK of no logging is causing all of this mess too!

There can be safe and SANE logging but people are too dense to see that and we keep on getting more and violent forest fires due to NO COMMON SENSE with SANE and safe logging.

DROUGHT is a huge factor out west and that is not some conspiracy theory. Old alive and now dead life long loggers, MT born and bred ranchers with HUGE spreads and old fashioned - sane (Now dead.) forest service workers that were in my husband's family and who were friends told us that but we already knew that. One of his dead uncles is in a MT PBS show about loggers and homesteading right below Canada in NW MT.

TREES need to be spaced apart if you plant them especially if you plant them while they are small - consider their growth - lifespan on your land, if they grow naturally from seed in the wilderness which is the most common thing, they need to be thinned out and logged in a sane manner. They need SUNLIGHT and moisture so that the healthy ones can grow up and have LESS issues with disease and rot too.

They just had a PBS show about people trying to capture pine cones and other cones for seed due to DISEASE and blights from all kinds of bugs. They got the cones and seeds but the 'weenies' did NOT destroy the bugs that caused the BLIGHT and it spread year after year.

So instead of calling the problem for what it was - the BLIGHT - they went on about the oil - gas fueled cars!

Meanwhile, the trees from year to year got worse in their OWN film footage. They did NOT EVEN TALK about GOOD and PROPER LOGGING too!

That one show alone was totally BIASED to one side. ALMOST all of it. They did discuss the forest fires but ZERO about logging and using the wood that they could SAVE - HARVEST while clearing out the dead trees, BUGS - DISEASED trees, and forest floor in some of those states!

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

I haven't seen any fir die off but every spruce in our area is dead. And they were all mature trees.

We have this in MT too. All types of trees and not just on state and federal lands.

On private properties - large and small.

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

In the SW part of Orygun redwoods are not uncommon. Some people are planting Sequoia groves. There is one at the end of my private road and a few scattered here and there on it - they were planted. I planted one in the middle of my driveway island and it did well for about 7 years - growing from knee high to 12' high, then it turned brown and died. Not sure why - it was healthy and strong.

Anyway, I have thinned my forest. I personally went thru and marked the trees that were overtopped and too small/young to compete with the mature trees, those and the one that were too close to others. Also had the logger remove most of the hardwoods and brush - I also had him remove some of the hardwood stumps, then later I went thru with a dozer and removed more - so now it is mostly conifers where I could get the dozer without getting stuck (too steep where it drops off into the gully).

I have cedar down by the creek and at the bottom of my gully - they do well where it is wet.

My back acreage - about 10 acres - I had clear cut and then replated. The maple/alder stumps won't die unless I burn or spray them - so there are clumps of maple/alder regrowing from the stumps, but the replant is doing ok so far - just not as thick as was intended because the replanters went thru a week before we burned the slash and due to the unfortunate timing (I had not control over it) we destroyed some of the replant.

THIS is a good post.

Sane and proper management of a smaller property.

Thank you.

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

My MT born and raised husband said that he can see and feel the difference in scenery, climate to a degree, temps, snow/rain, vegetation and animals/fish when he hunts/fishes and goes on various trips and hikes. Just like the one man mentioned here being another outdoors man.

Our rancher friends - several generations just like my husband's family out here say the same thing. Other friends, not 'transplants' as I am, say the same thing.

NO one is running around with their hair on fire. They are making observations.

Just as I DID, not only my husband and some tree company did, when I had some old and huge trees cut down to ROT, disease, etc. even though there was plenty of water by my water rights ditch here on my town land.

Some looked okay on the outside but the inside was rotted. Heck, I am NOT even from here and I could tell they were JUNK. Plus I cleared a lot back there on my own and HIRED help for the TALL - HUGE trees.

He said that the forest fires were NOT as bad shy of 2 of them to HIS MEMORY (Two big ones - one old historical MT fire and one (MT) in the late 90's or 2000 (?). as they are NOW.

The one that made the national, international and local news was RIGHT ON his rancher friend's property. Famous picture. In 2000?

Plus he said that it is much HOTTER now compared to living all of his life in this state shy of a couple of years in Northern Idaho for one company but it was CLOSE to the MT border.

I would add more here on the temps but my arthritic hands are sore.

He says that it is dryer and HOTTER - there is less snow and rain. Sure we get snow and rain but there is LESS of it even if you have a week of this or that.

GO up to Lake Koocanusa and to many other lakes in MT and in the panhandle of ID and I could SEE LAKE KOOCANUSA water levels drop in SEVERAL YEARS and I was not even here 20 years at that time as I am now. I have not been UP that way in several years.

So just because you have pouring rain in your area or here, briefly, it does not mean that you have or had sufficient rain or snow.

Side note:

People put all of the POISON on their lawns so that is looks like a golf course.

That freaking poison and wasting water to make some 'lawn' look like some other place in the country is just plain STUPID!

A waste of water for a climate that does not support it.

The POISONOUS chemicals on their lawns don't help the water table and they KILL off song birds just as much as the FERAL cats due in MY opinion.

The old timers can tell you the difference!

But just because most of us don't like crazy @@@ greenie weenies or so called experts (NOT!) like that one BRAT of a girl with her SMUG HOW DARE YOU attitude does not mean that some things have NOT changed and not for the better when it comes to WATER conservation in a sane manner, proper logging (DO IT!) and not planting KY BLUE GRASS in a high desert or in a dry climate that does not support it.

And do NOT forget climate engineering - it is a real thing. That is not some conspiracy theory.

And do NOT forget criminal arsonists who start fires on purpose (OLD news and proven even in MT including in NW MT. Sheriff and his news.) and stupid, careless people with the campfires that they do NOT put out properly.

Throw in the idiots who use Firecrackers and Tannerite where and when they should not be used due to fire - wind conditions and safety! Dumb @@@es!

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

It sure isn't from logging. They're probably diseased due to lack of logging/thinning.

THIS x 1 million!

Here is your morning coffee.

Merry Christmas early!

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

Question:

In that one picture that is posted, are there groups of ASPEN and other NON evergreen trees mixed in with the evergreen ones? Aspen and other trees turn colors in the fall.

It looks like that to me but I can't tell for sure.

Thank you.

Cate
PS: Back east: I loved my sugar maples, other maples, oak trees, burning bush, etc. that turned COLORS in the fall. But it was obvious and natural and not some BLIGHT.

 

[The Heretic]

I have lived in the PNW for almost 70 years, where I currently live, for about 50 years - mostly Oregon & WA state (some months working in AK & MT).

It used to be that during the summer we had rain quite often. The 4th of July was a tossup as to whether it would be nice enough to do something outside or whether it would be raining. High temps were in the 90s, records were if it broke 100*

Now we have summers with no rain for months - not even a trace - from June to late September, even October. We have record high temps well above 100* west of the Cascades. We have burn bans from early spring to late fall - this year the ban was lifted, then brought back, even though it had rained quite a bit - and that was on the coast which has milder temps and more rain. We have to be careful with mowing and anything else that might cause a spark.

Yes, the climate has changed. Whatever the cause, it has changed and we need to adapt to it, not ignore it because we don't like what someone says about why it changed.

 

[Alexx1401]

I have lived in the PNW for almost 70 years, where I currently live, for about 50 years - mostly Oregon & WA state (some months working in AK & MT).

It used to be that during the summer we had rain quite often. The 4th of July was a tossup as to whether it would be nice enough to do something outside or whether it would be raining. High temps were in the 90s, records were if it broke 100*

Now we have summers with no rain for months - not even a trace - from June to late September, even October. We have record high temps well above 100* west of the Cascades. We have burn bans from early spring to late fall - this year the ban was lifted, then brought back, even though it had rained quite a bit - and that was on the coast which has milder temps and more rain. We have to be careful with mowing and anything else that might cause a spark.

Yes, the climate has changed. Whatever the cause, it has changed and we need to adapt to it, not ignore it because we don't like what someone says about why it changed.

Only those who want to not see it would pretend the weather does not change. It has been changing since man started to keep track of it. The climate runs in cycles, always has, always well. Where the problem comes in is people who want to make laws and control people by telling them they can change the weather. This is the hoax that has to have people like Barnum rolling in his grave. That so many fools will follow people telling them their car is a problem as they fly around from home to home on a private jet. Climate is being used to set up a caste system. The best part is the people who will be at the bottom of this system are fighting to implement it on themselves. It is nothing short of amazing to watch it being done to people who ask for more.

 

[Mikej]

Whatever the reason, the climate is changing and we should prepare for it.

Who here thinks mankind will survive on our earth for the next 5000 years? Raise your hands. I'm just wanting to prepare for the next couple of years. And I'd like people to leave me the "F" alone and let me finish off the rest of my life in peace God Dammit!!

 

[The Heretic]

Who here thinks mankind will survive on our earth for the next 5000 years? Raise your hands. I'm just wanting to prepare for the next couple of years. And I'd like people to leave me the "F" alone and let me finish off the rest of my life in peace God Dammit!!

I won't be here for 5000 more years and neither will my children. I prepare for my survival and theirs. I am not going to give up on that just because humans might not be here X millennia from now.

 

[Mikej]

I won't be here for 5000 more years and neither will my children. I prepare for my survival and theirs. I am not going to give up on that just because humans might not be here X millennia from now.

5000 huh? Yeah, okay. I've got a feeling that humans will eliminate them selves long before the planet would become inhabitable.