Firearms on Washington State Ferrys

[Stomper]

'cept I have stellar reading comprehension skills, and do what I want. (Because I'm married)

 

[boogerhook]

how can you eliminate state preemption without changing the WA Constitution?

 

[etrain16]

Totally useless sentence. See http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.290 This could not be clearer.

By the way, there was a clear movement in the 2015 Wash Legislature to modify RCW 09.41.290, and eliminate state pre-emption. THIS we must fight, otherwise we become PDX.

How would you become PDX? Oregon has state pre-emption too. Even PDX can only go so far. The same rules apply for CHL holders in Oregon - all those rules they have in Multnomah County don't apply to CHL holders due to the exemptions. As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) both states offer similar exemptions for those with CHL/CPL's.

 

[deen_ad]

<- Why there aren't any school shootings in Israel!
Teacher with long gun slung over her shoulder!!!

My local park has a sign that says "Unauthorized firearms are prohibited". Still trying to figure out what that one means.

Our local parks were all signed "No Firearms Allowed" till they got told they couldn't do that. Even the Sheriffs office claimed that guns weren't allowed in the common areas, even though State law preempts all local laws. Took some letter writing to the Sheriff and local newspaper but they finally changed it.

Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
NRA Golden Eagle member
NRA Recruiter
Defender of Freedom Award
Washington Arms Collector Member
Vancouver Rifle & Pistol Club member
"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"

 

[deen_ad]

<- Why there aren't any school shootings in Israel!
Teacher with long gun slung over her shoulder!!!

An unauthorized firearm doesn't affect those of us licensed to carry concealed !
City law doesn't supersede state law

And since WA is an open carry state you don't need a license to open carry, so just what is an "unauthorized firearm"?

Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
NRA Golden Eagle member
NRA Recruiter
Defender of Freedom Award
Washington Arms Collector Member
Vancouver Rifle & Pistol Club member
"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"

 

[boogerhook]

an "unauthorized firearm" is a fabrication to shake your confidence...

if anything it's people who are authorized - firearms are not licensed, yet

 

[pdrake]

How would you become PDX? Oregon has state pre-emption too. Even PDX can only go so far. The same rules apply for CHL holders in Oregon - all those rules they have in Multnomah County don't apply to CHL holders due to the exemptions. As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) both states offer similar exemptions for those with CHL/CPL's.

Etrain: Please correct me if I am wrong. My understanding of the current situation around PDX (Multinomah County, etc.) is that local firearms ordinances are stricter than in other areas of Oregon. In Washington this is simply not possible: Pre-emption means that state-level regulations completely "occupy" the firearms space---there cannot be a situation where one municipality has laws more strict than those of the state.

For example, state law allows localities to prohibit discharge of firearms in certain areas (urbanized zones, parks, etc.). However, that is a state regulation, and localities cannot expand that regulation beyond what is written into state law.

My question for you: Isn't it the case that firearms restrictions (e.g. for non-CPL holders) are more strict in PDX than in the rest of the state?

 

[etrain16]

Etrain: Please correct me if I am wrong. My understanding of the current situation around PDX (Multinomah County, etc.) is that local firearms ordinances are stricter than in other areas of Oregon. In Washington this is simply not possible: Pre-emption means that state-level regulations completely "occupy" the firearms space---there cannot be a situation where one municipality has laws more strict than those of the state.

For example, state law allows localities to prohibit discharge of firearms in certain areas (urbanized zones, parks, etc.). However, that is a state regulation, and localities cannot expand that regulation beyond what is written into state law.

My question for you: Isn't it the case that firearms restrictions (e.g. for non-CPL holders) are more strict in PDX than in the rest of the state?

The pre-emption in Oregon allows local governments (cities, counties) to make firearms laws, up to a point. For example, a CHL is pretty much an all-around exemption for any laws that could be passed, even in the commie haven of Portland. They can pass all the laws they want, but if you have a CHL, you're exempted from them.

So perhaps it's a bit different (I'm not as familiar with Washington's rules) up there. In reality, in Oregon, having a CHL is your best protection from nasty politicians like those in Multnomah County. I don't like it, but at least we have a good, solid way around it.

 

[pdrake]

an "unauthorized firearm" is a fabrication to shake your confidence...

if anything it's people who are authorized - firearms are not licensed, yet

Boogerhook, I agree with your comments. However, I would ask for a change in wording.

Our cherished constitutional system of government declared the rights of men (and women ) to expressly forbid the government from usurping our freedoms. Everybody on this site knows this and agrees. Taking the logic to its conclusion, all people (whether citizens or not, mind you) have the natural right to keep and bear arms. Therefore, we are not "authorized" to have firearms. Rather, it is only those who have lost their rights (perhaps permanently, perhaps temporarily) who become "prohibited" citizens--such people lose some of their freedoms (because of their behavior).

This is why I despise "concealed pistol licenses" or "carry permits." ALL people have such rights. It is only those who do stupid things who lose their rights. Therefore, all gun control measures should be scrapped, in favor of a system of "banned persons." It is simply this: Do something stupid, lose your 2nd amendment rights, find your name on a public list of shame. Everybody else is still free to carry on with their business (including private party sales). No need for firearms licensing, no need for special permits to carry. Just freedom for those who agree with constitutional government, and obey the laws of the land.

 

[The Heretic]

My local park has a sign that says "Unauthorized firearms are prohibited". Still trying to figure out what that one means.

That one makes a little more sense actually - assuming the "authorization" comes from some law or regulation that states that only authorized persons can carry there and then explicitly enumerates who those authorized people are - assuming they are not the general public.

Back in the early 90s I had a concealed carry permit in WA state and I carried into work periodically because there was nothing in the workplace policy/rules about firearms. One day someone saw my firearm in my briefcase (I kept it there, locked, when it wasn't on my person) when I opened it to get something out. Shortly afterwards they came out with a revision of the workplace rules stating that "illegal firearms" were not allowed on the work property.

I thought that was funny since of course my firearms were not illegal, but I did understand the intent even if they expressed it wrongly and I stopped carrying there (it was a very low crime part of the metro area), even if I could have disputed the wording if they noticed again. I didn't feel like fighting them on it and having to fight for my job, much less having to deal with the fallout if I lost.

As for the ferries - yeah, I am sure someone somewhere probably thought they would play some mind games with gun owners. It is not surprising to me at all that a LEO wouldn't understand the law or the fact that the sign was irrelevant and redundant. Whenever someone suggests asking a LEO about some law I internally roll my eyes as most LEOs do not understand the law any better than the general public, even though they enforce it.

 

[boogerhook]

Boogerhook, I agree with your comments. However, I would ask for a change in wording.

Our cherished constitutional system of government declared the rights of men (and women ) to expressly forbid the government from usurping our freedoms. Everybody on this site knows this and agrees. Taking the logic to its conclusion, all people (whether citizens or not, mind you) have the natural right to keep and bear arms. Therefore, we are not "authorized" to have firearms. Rather, it is only those who have lost their rights (perhaps permanently, perhaps temporarily) who become "prohibited" citizens--such people lose some of their freedoms (because of their behavior).

This is why I despise "concealed pistol licenses" or "carry permits." ALL people have such rights. It is only those who do stupid things who lose their rights. Therefore, all gun control measures should be scrapped, in favor of a system of "banned persons." It is simply this: Do something stupid, lose your 2nd amendment rights, find your name on a public list of shame. Everybody else is still free to carry on with their business (including private party sales). No need for firearms licensing, no need for special permits to carry. Just freedom for those who agree with constitutional government, and obey the laws of the land.

That would be nice, wouldn't it ;-) Now in the real world as it exists today, government "authorizes" that military and police personnel may possess select fire rifles, and by and large citizens don't. That was my whole point about the word "authorized"....

 

[Dave Workman]

Yes the ferries are nothing but a hiway system,so riding the ferry is the same as driving down I5 with your guns.
All they are there for is that chance that a martyr is on board

Correct, sort of. The ferries are part of the state highway system and you're good to go. Perhaps not surprisingly, when I taught a firearms course years ago at Highline CC south of Seattle — which ultimately led me to write the WA gun rights book — that was one of the most often asked questions, so that was something I darn sure included in the text.

The signs might also make omeone believe that they can keep a martyr, or a moron, off the ferry. Good luck with that!

 

[U201494]

Ohhhhh, that kind of fairy, now I get it.