Financial prep - don't rely on Social Security

[The Heretic]

I hear what you're saying, and don't disagree. However, I believe if there wasn't forced savings and social security, there would be way more people starving in their old age and that would just beget even more government intervention, programs, departments, infrastructure, etc. A "no win" situation for sure.

Circular reasoning; we need more gov intervention because if we don't, we would have more government intervention. Eliminate all unjustified government intervention. If people "starve" because they did not make wise decisions, or even if they did and were just subject to bad things happening to them, it is NOT my or the government's responsibility to make that right.

This is the slippery slope of socialism. Once you start down that path, there really is no turning back (except for a complete revolution or collapse and reset). We are seeing where it is going now and Social Security is a very slight indicator of that trend, but one of the first that set us on this path. SS was the toe in the door to government social programs.

The word "social" is quite apt for these programs. It is society, not government that should be providing these programs - but they should be voluntary, not mandatory. Government should only provide physical infrastructure, law enforcement, judicial support and national defense. Government should NOT try to shape, much less mandate, what society is or isn't.

Now people will say I am cold hearted and I've been called mean and callous, but I am not against charity; I contribute to private charity and help those in need, when I can (used to be quite liberal - but much harder now that I am retired). But my family comes first and every dollar the government takes from me and gives to others is another dollar I do not have to help support my family.

Charity is not mandatory, it is voluntary. If it is forced, then it is not charity, it is theft from the "giver" to the taker.

The quality of mercy is not strained;
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:

 

[Bobbygun]

Circular reasoning; we need more gov intervention because if we don't, we would have more government intervention.

Please don't mistake my saying "what" will happen, with what I "want" to happen. I definitely don't think we "need" any more government intervention. But, we almost certainly will get it.

 

[The Heretic]

Please don't mistake my saying "what" will happen, with what I "want" to happen. I definitely don't think we "need" any more government intervention. But, we almost certainly will get it.

I agree - we are too far down that road for the public to turn back now. I would take a collapse of the system to turn it around, and even then, given human nature, it would be very hard to accomplish a reset. Even if we were to get a reset, we would have to be constantly vigilant and work hard to ensure we didn't go down that road again.

Fantasy land.

 

[Stomper]

Don't get me wrong, I'm very libertarian myself, but I also understand humans and their lack of self-control. I also don't like seeing people suffer unnecessarily due to their own stupidity or lack of self-control.

Being (willfully) stupid and lacking self-discipline SHOULD hurt. The threat of starvation (in a land of plenty like ours) is a POWERFUL antidote to "stupid".

 

[Stomper]

One of the issues of being poor, is the inability to purchase better things or in bulk. For example, bulk canned goods is typically cheaper, but if you're living paycheck to paycheck, you pay the poor tax. Thus, paying the poor tax you will never be able to save for retirement.

I see plenty of poor paying that "poor tax" on their cigarettes, beer, and PlayStation/Xbox gear…..

 

[solv3nt]

Being (willfully) stupid and lacking self-discipline SHOULD hurt. The threat of starvation (in a land of plenty like ours) is a POWERFUL antidote to "stupid".

I agree. Good luck on delivery.

 

[Stomper]

I agree. Good luck on delivery.

So…. "return to sender"?


Doesn't matter, one day their letter carrier will be the sandman….

 

[solv3nt]

Another thing to consider. Again, taking the median household income of approximately $80k/yr. The half that make less than that will get very upset and most likely violent if they don't get the handouts that they believe are due. Half the US population is somewhere around 180 million.

 

[Mark W.]

The wife and I are retiring this year (she just did Tuesday) (I will either Aug 1st or if I feel like it Nov 1st. as there is a financial bump if I stay until the end of the season)

Her SSI My SSI Her small 401K My 401K her small pensions from Safeway Albertsons And her Union covering are medical past Part B. Will suit our needs pretty well for the next 15 years. (I'm 66.5 now) House paid for Car paid for almost no CC debt 6 months of income in the Bank now. I plan on doing somewhere around $500 a month in side hustle And we plan on selling down the HUGE amount of collectable junk we have amassed over the last 42 years.

When the pickup engine goes I plan to Hot Rod it with a 220 HP 283 I have with the 33% OD it should get better then 22mpg I can do all this work myself.
Her car has better then 100,000 miles left to go and we live in a Small town so little driving required.
The 48 Willys which has had everything rebuilt up graded etc only has 4000 miles on it so its good for another 70K and will be our primary travel vehicle with a tiny off road travel trailer I am building.

The house and firearms collection and a couple of other items are going into a Trust with our son and daughter.

And lots of fixing up the house and traveling on a budget in our future.

 

[echo1]

My spousal unit and I are in the living retired poverty group. A major tragedy hit us a dozen years ago, wiped out our 401s, affected our health (both lost our jobs, she never return to the work force). I managed to get back into the workplace at my previous management level and worked until getting full SSI. She held off until she qualified for full. I'm on my 6th seasonal ag gig since retiring and got at least one more in me. We have always been poor and broke, but frugal, plus when the housing market crashed in '06-'08, we gambled on some real estate and managed to hang on and won. We just got our Trust lined out and are adjusting the fine details with amendments. I can turn a wrench and make cash money. My main aspect is that it should get UGLY sometime in my life, it's the luck of the draw whose left standing (Providence), Murphy's Law rules. Roll with it. PAX

 

[wired]

They'll just print more money and lower taxes again.

 

[Provincial]

Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. It relies on money paid in from succeeding victims to pay the earlier victims. The first money paid in was spent on people who had paid in nothing, and any "trust fund" balance was invested in government bonds, which have a fairly low rate of return. Those returns are reduced by inflation, so the real return is minimal.

The problem with Ponzi schemes is that they rely on an an ever-expanding pool of new suckers. If the pool of new suckers tapers off, or worse yet, shrinks steadily, the money runs out. Collapse is inevitable.

 

[ma96782]

Besides giving away even MORE. LOL......I believe that.......Brandon has a solution (to be revealed right before the election). Cough, cough....... Wait for it.



TAX THE RICH!


Aloha, Mark

 

[Kcee]

I did contracting all my life, even when I worked in the jewelry and aerospace industries, and I never payed into Social Security.

That's what I love about Oregon, the only real tax I pay is property tax, and I use as many county services as possible to get my money's worth!

I like that I never gave the Feds anything over the years.

When I did forestry contracting, and hospice care for my dying parents, my (ex) wife and parents tried to talk me into paying into Social Security, and I refused.

When I was a kid, and my oldest brother was drafted into the Vietnam War, I decided to never have anything to do with the Feds.

 

[dangerranger60]

I have never worked where SS was optional.
Every day since I was little I heard SS was insolvent. It would run out of money in the 80's, 90's, 2000's, etc.
When my wife was injured and they offered her SSD I just looked at it as a way to get my investment back before they run out of money.
Its unlikely I will live past 2035, and very very unlikely I will be here in 2042 when I hit the brake even point of what I paid in and the benefits I receive.
So the wife has let me brake even sooner! DR

 

[wired]

I have never worked where SS was optional.
Every day since I was little I heard SS was insolvent. It would run out of money in the 80's, 90's, 2000's, etc.
When my wife was injured and they offered her SSD I just looked at it as a way to get my investment back before they run out of money.
Its unlikely I will live past 2035, and very very unlikely I will be here in 2042 when I hit the brake even point of what I paid in and the benefits I receive.
So the wife has let me brake even sooner! DR

Itll never run out. Not unless there was a full governmental collapse. They'll just borrow more.

 

[dangerranger60]

Itll never run out. Not unless there was a full governmental collapse. They'll just borrow more.

Ron Regan kicked the people off the SS system that had never paid in and had no claim to benefits to keep the system solvent. The whole promise of single payer health care [Obama care] is to put those people back on. DR

 

[wired]

Ron Regan kicked the people off the SS system that had never paid in and had no claim to benefits to keep the system solvent. The whole promise of single payer health care [Obama care] is to put those people back on. DR

True but they can't let it go insolvent. As much as we talk about SS running out it never will. .

 

[Certaindeaf]

Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. It relies on money paid in from succeeding victims to pay the earlier victims. The first money paid in was spent on people who had paid in nothing, and any "trust fund" balance was invested in government bonds, which have a fairly low rate of return. Those returns are reduced by inflation, so the real return is minimal.

The problem with Ponzi schemes is that they rely on an an ever-expanding pool of new suckers. If the pool of new suckers tapers off, or worse yet, shrinks steadily, the money runs out. Collapse is inevitable.

Hence the open border.

 

[Cavedweller]

On the positive side, because of Social Security few people in our society contribute financially to the support of their aged parents. Nor do we need to have large families in order to guarantee someone will support us in our old age. Instead of thinking about the system as "getting back what I paid in," it might be less painful to think of the payroll tax as "my contribution to the support of my parents in their old age." In countries without such a system, children are expected to provide for their parents if not actually take them into their homes and care for them in their "golden years."

I do admit, however, that the Self-employment Tax, the "other half" of the payroll tax, or the employer contribution, is oppressive and burdensome for those with a small business. I personally experienced the painfulness of this when my wife had her own small business. Although her business was fairly successful, it seemed like .gov took an awfully big bite, which goes unnoticed when one is on a payroll.

I'm sure some folks will disagree with what I said in the first paragraph, but I'm just proposing an alternative way of looking at the payroll tax. I also expect some "But I do.." responses.