National Fifth circuit injunction against the ATF pistol brace rule.

[chipotle]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1663683097274064896

Further clarification from FPC today on what constitutes "membership", and therefore coverage under the 5th circuit's injuction of the brace rule.

 

[Lilhigbee]

Doesn't anyone have a problem with the fact that the injunction only applies to certain people?? Since when does a judge get to pick and choose who a law applies to?? I thought we were all supposed to be "equal" under the law?? Yet here we have a situation where a judge has said that the law can't be applied to a certain group of people but the rest of us are still subject to it. BS I say!!

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Looks like now you have to pay $30 to be a member of FPC after their change on Sunday.

FPC Statement Regarding Membership

Today, Firearms Policy Coalition (FPC) issued a statement regarding membership:

www.firearmspolicy.org

 

[RX-79G]

To be frank, I would rather touch a spent nuclear fuel rod than these fake "amnesty" form 1 registrations.

You are admitting to ATF (with photo evidence!) that an NFA violation occurred, and you don't even get a true tax stamp for your trouble (literally-they don't give you an NFA tax stamp, just a waiver).

That's ridiculous. The brace pistols were clearly legal up until the ruling, and you can't get a stamp for a tax you weren't assessed and didn't pay.

 

[CamoDeafie]

To be frank, I would rather touch a spent nuclear fuel rod than these fake "amnesty" form 1 registrations.

You are admitting to ATF (with photo evidence!) that an NFA violation occurred, and you don't even get a true tax stamp for your trouble (literally-they don't give you an NFA tax stamp, just a waiver).

For what it's worth.... they didn't ask me for a photo of the whole firearm. Just the lower markings and that's it.

Edit. The only photographic evidence they have is of the lower. Everything else looks same as tax paid forms from what I can find except for the addition of "tax exempt firearm" relating to the Final Rule thing. We shall see what happens; throw out Final Rule, keep those who've registered as SBRs, throw out Final rule, destroy records, send letters telling them to revert back to pistols,
Don't throw out Final Rule, ATF gets to go after "unregistered SBR" owners

Throw out Final Rule, and overturn SBR portion of NFA, destroy records, tell ATF to stay in lane; Best outcome possible

Also; they've been doing tax exempt form 1s for a long time for Law Enforcement and Govt Agencies, so this isn't the only time

 

[ilikegunspdx]

For what it's worth.... they didn't ask me for a photo of the whole firearm. Just the lower markings and that's it.

Edit. The only photographic evidence they have is of the lower. Everything else looks same as tax paid forms from what I can find except for the addition of "tax exempt firearm" relating to the Final Rule thing. We shall see what happens; throw out Final Rule, keep those who've registered as SBRs, throw out Final rule, destroy records, send letters telling them to revert back to pistols,
Don't throw out Final Rule, ATF gets to go after "unregistered SBR" owners

Throw out Final Rule, and overturn SBR portion of NFA, destroy records, tell ATF to stay in lane; Best outcome possible

Also; they've been doing tax exempt form 1s for a long time for Law Enforcement and Govt Agencies, so this isn't the only time

It's not worth the time to educate people with the boogeyman mindset imo. Calling it a "waiver" is just ignorance. Prosecuting for signing up on their formal amnesty program also is of course ridiculous.

Concerns such as registration leads to future confiscation fe may be valid someday who knows, but the ignorant BS that poster is spewing you are not going to be able to educate him. I wouldn't bother personally. Lots of smart and good posters on here are taking at least minimal time to learn the facts and weighing pros and cons for them. He is not one of those.

 

[chipotle]

It's not worth the time to educate people with the boogeyman mindset imo. Calling it a "waiver" is just ignorance. Prosecuting for signing up on their formal amnesty program also is of course ridiculous.

Concerns such as future registration leads to confiscation fe may be valid someday who knows, but the ignorant BS that poster is spewing you are not going to be able to educate him. I wouldn't bother personally.

I have registered NFA items. Do you trust this administration not to pull the rug out from amnesty seekers if this goes our way in the courts?

 

[chipotle]

Looks like now you have to pay $30 to be a member of FPC after their change on Sunday.

FPC Statement Regarding Membership

Today, Firearms Policy Coalition (FPC) issued a statement regarding membership:

www.firearmspolicy.org

Per FPC's latest announcement, it is lowered to $20 paid in any form (T-shirt, two $10 donations, etc.) during this fiscal year. Today is the last day to jump aboard.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Did they ever "pull the rug out" under for the 1968 Machine Gun amnesty stamp holders?

 

[chipotle]

Did they ever "pull the rug out" under for the 1968 Machine Gun amnesty stamp holders?

The GCA was a bona fide act of congress. Our current situation rises from arbitrary "lawmaking" on the part of a federal alphabet agency at the behest of the executive branch. I do not equivocate the two-others may hedge their bets as they see fit.

 

[msgriff]

Did they ever "pull the rug out" under for the 1968 Machine Gun amnesty stamp holders?

This is from Ian McCollum (Forgotten Weapons) from 6-7 years ago:

"When the 1968 machine gun amnesty was announced in the US, it was treated with widespread suspicion among gun collectors. Some thought it would merely a pretense to find and arrest owners of unregistered machine guns. Others though it was just the first step in a prohibition and confiscation of machine guns. Both of these groups would prove to be wrong, however,r and the amnesty was in fact a true amnesty.

In fact, the amnesty was even more substantial than people recognize even today. It was not just an amnesty for possession of an unregistered machine gun, but also pretty much any crime associated with the gun. For example, it would legalize guns that had been stolen from military property rooms, and guns with defaced serial numbers. In fact, it even allowed felons to register machine guns, and retain the legal right to own them to this very day."

I do think, however, that individual States who pass laws prohibiting SBRs without a "grandfather clause" may become an issue.

 

[CamoDeafie]

5 things people can do, 1 which will be impossible after today,

1. Destroy firearm

2. Turn firearm to AFT right....

3. Reconfigure to "non SBR"; add 16" barrel. May as well as give it a real stock basically the Thompson Center Arms Contender method.

4. Remove brace "permanently so it cannot be reattached"; AFT never clarified that, Director claims "just take brace off is ok" basically reconfigure to pre Pistol Brace pistol configuration IE; naked buffer tube. Could destroy brace if desired to make it "permanently incapable of being reattached"?

5. Register tax-free with AFT, supposedly not gonna go after people who have applied by today before midnight. Might be riskiest, might be safest, who truly knows?


As for the court cases and Congress.. if anyone thinks the pistol brace ruling will be overturned before the 2024 election year, I've got a bridge in Alaska to Russia to sell

Court cases will take a while to get to SCOTUS; by which then there is a chance of a 2A-friendlier President sitting and a slim chance of Senate swinging to a Republican Majority... and even then.. looking at how Congress was during National Reciprocity and Hearing Protection Act....

 

[ilikegunspdx]

5 things people can do, 1 which will be impossible after today,

1. Destroy firearm

2. Turn firearm to AFT right....

3. Reconfigure to "non SBR"; add 16" barrel. May as well as give it a real stock basically the Thompson Center Arms Contender method.

4. Remove brace "permanently so it cannot be reattached"; AFT never clarified that, Director claims "just take brace off is ok" basically reconfigure to pre Pistol Brace pistol configuration IE; naked buffer tube. Could destroy brace if desired to make it "permanently incapable of being reattached"?

5. Register tax-free with AFT, supposedly not gonna go after people who have applied by today before midnight. Might be riskiest, might be safest, who truly knows?


As for the court cases and Congress.. if anyone thinks the pistol brace ruling will be overturned before the 2024 election year, I've got a bridge in Alaska to Russia to sell

Court cases will take a while to get to SCOTUS; by which then there is a chance of a 2A-friendlier President sitting and a slim chance of Senate swinging to a Republican Majority... and even then.. looking at how Congress was during National Reciprocity and Hearing Protection Act....

For the sake of completeness, 2 things a person can do, but don't belong in the "known legal methods" of your list:

1. Don't comply, not legal

2. Don't comply, and rely on your GOA or FPC membership via current injunctions. Might be legal, might not last, who knows

Also to expand on your #4 above, a person could seperate the brace and keep seperate from firearm and:

A) wait for courts to overturn brace rule before reattaching

B) sign up for regular sbr and pay $200 if courts don't overturn the rule (or if you just want to to add a regular stock or vertical grip)

 

[RX-79G]

For what it's worth.... they didn't ask me for a photo of the whole firearm. Just the lower markings and that's it.

Edit. The only photographic evidence they have is of the lower. Everything else looks same as tax paid forms from what I can find except for the addition of "tax exempt firearm" relating to the Final Rule thing. We shall see what happens; throw out Final Rule, keep those who've registered as SBRs, throw out Final rule, destroy records, send letters telling them to revert back to pistols,
Don't throw out Final Rule, ATF gets to go after "unregistered SBR" owners

Throw out Final Rule, and overturn SBR portion of NFA, destroy records, tell ATF to stay in lane; Best outcome possible

Also; they've been doing tax exempt form 1s for a long time for Law Enforcement and Govt Agencies, so this isn't the only time

I didn't even submit a photo. Only required for 80% builds.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Most ideal but least likely outcome; overturning and/or repeal of all Fed gun control laws.

More likely outcomes, from best chances to snowball in hell.

Final Rule overturned by District Judges; appeals(during which time DOJ gonna continue business as usual, see Cargill ), SCOTUS docket, SCOTUS decision few years down the road. NFA intact

Final Rule upheld, appeals, SCOTUS docket, few years down, ATF big public raids that makes Waco look inconsequential.


Final Rule overturned at SCOTUS level, NFA basically intact; Caetano opinion not applied by Thomas

Final Rule upheld at SCOTUS level, Thomas dissents

Final Rule overturned at SCOTUS level, SBR portion of NFA overturned/nullified; DOJ ordered to destroy records for registered SBRs including pistol braces; big win for 2A

Final Rule upheld unanimously at SCOTUS level , no dissent; DOJ and D Congress emboldened to do further Executive runaround, big Loss for 2A

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Most ideal but least likely outcome; overturning and/or repeal of all Fed gun control laws.

More likely outcomes, from best chances to snowball in hell.

Final Rule overturned by District Judges; appeals(during which time DOJ gonna continue business as usual, see Cargill ), SCOTUS docket, SCOTUS decision few years down the road. NFA intact

Final Rule upheld, appeals, SCOTUS docket, few years down, ATF big public raids that makes Waco look inconsequential.


Final Rule overturned at SCOTUS level, NFA basically intact; Caetano opinion not applied by Thomas

Final Rule upheld at SCOTUS level, Thomas dissents

Final Rule overturned at SCOTUS level, SBR portion of NFA overturned/nullified; DOJ ordered to destroy records for registered SBRs including pistol braces; big win for 2A

Final Rule upheld unanimously at SCOTUS level , no dissent; DOJ and D Congress emboldened to do further Executive runaround, big Loss for 2A

I think scotus will overturn the rule eventually and any sbrs that have already been approved will remain approved.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I think scotus will overturn the rule eventually and any sbrs that have already been approved will remain approved.

I'm just saying after whichever happens in the District Courts; SCOTUS may still not nullify the SBR portion of the NFA, even if the Final rule is overturned.

You and I agree overturning of the Final Rule is pretty likely both in District and then in SCOTUS. But the question and the less likely, will SCOTUS nullify the SBR portion, and possibly even the whole NFA if Caetano is applied? I have my doubts that Thomas can get the SBR part to be removed.... overturn just the pistol brace ruling, easier than getting the 4 other Justices to nullify/remove the SBR part of the NFA.

 

[The Heretic]

 

[CamoDeafie]

View attachment 1430024

I think the ATF have always said that long before the pistol brace thing... same for cane tips.

 

[RX-79G]

What interest does SCOTUS have in preserving an exception to the SBR part of the NFA?

I get the people don't like ATF taking back their previous ruling, but what Constitutional matter is at stake? It isn't a "taking clause" matter since free SBR status was offered