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I predict that shortly all coppers will be mandated to wear body cameras. I also predict that it shall still remain very unwise to manhandle/defy a cop.
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Ferguson, MO
- Thread Starter ZigZagZeke
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Everything that everybody is "reacting" to are the words of dead mans accomplice. ooh, it's gospel.. paraisea the lowad! idiots all
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Question:
Do you suppose the continued stirring is because the midterm elections are coming in November.
In other words, someone trying to "consolidate" the democrat base????
Now who do you suppose would do that?? . . . Hhhhhmmmmmmmm!!
Sheldon
Do you suppose the continued stirring is because the midterm elections are coming in November.
In other words, someone trying to "consolidate" the democrat base????
Now who do you suppose would do that?? . . . Hhhhhmmmmmmmm!!
Sheldon
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As full retard as it is to hold them like that, I'm sure the picture is posed. Anyway, stumbled across this guy's response to the riots over on /r/AR15 on Reddit. Allegedly he is the shop owner.
Eagle
Nice place to pick up a free rifle.
If I had a shop to defend down there then (a) I wouldn't try doing it alone (b) my primary weapon would be a large can of pepper spray with a holstered handgun as a backup and (c) I wouldn't stand there posturing like a tough guy wearing a provocative T-shirt and holding an AK in each hand. If the guy in the photo winds up having to use one of those guns for self defense, that photo could be used by the prosecution to bury him. Like it or not, we now live in a world where pretty much everyone has a video camera in their phone and we are never more than about 3 minutes away from being recorded and viewed all over the world on YouTube.
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As true as that may be, my first though was still good for him someone willing to stand up for ones self.
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further we can probably assume that he's waiting for another person to give the other rifle too so chances are I probably wasn't alone remember photo is but a millisecond in time
I have no problem with someone standing up and defending their property from looters, all I am saying is that they need to be smart about how they do it. Choosing to pick up a gun brings with it the possibility that you will have to defend your actions with that gun in a court of law.
Millisecond or not, that photo could wind up being made into a poster by the prosecutor who is trying him for murder.
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true. But I bet there's few prosecuting attorneys in Missouri that are willing to take the risk of trying to prosecute someone protecting their stores from looters.
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So we should all get rid of our guns?
I mean we will all could end up in court some day. If you use your gun for anything like defense,you will be in court.
Hope you just use them for targets
No we shouldn't get rid of our guns, but if we are going to be using them to guard our property during a riot with a bunch of cameras around maybe we shouldn't be wearing "all damn day" t shirts and mugging for the camera with an AK in each hand like a tough guy. If I were defending my property I would want to have pepper spray as a primary option with a handgun as a backup. I would want to show that I at least tried to use non lethal means. I would be thinking ahead of time about how my actions and my appearance could affect me if I wound up in court.
Here's a little LA Riots history lesson found on Wikipedia:
(Especially read the last paragraph.)
Second day (Thursday, April 30)
Although the day began relatively quietly, by mid-morning on the second day violence appeared widespread and unchecked as heavy looting and fires were witnessed across Los Angeles County. Korean-Americans, seeing the police force's abandonment of Koreatown, organized armed security teams composed of store owners, who defended their livelihoods from assault by the mobs. Open gun battles were televised, as in one well publicized incident where Korean shopkeepers armed with M1 carbines, pump action shotguns and handguns exchanged gunfire with, broke up and forced a retreat of a group of armed looters.[35]
Organized law-enforcement response began to come together by midday. Fire crews began to respond backed by police escort; California Highway Patrol reinforcements were airlifted to the city; and Los Angeles Mayor Tom Bradley announced a dusk-to-dawn curfew at 12:15 am. President George H. W. Bush spoke out against the rioting, stating that "anarchy" would not be tolerated. The California Army National Guard, which had been advised not to expect civil disturbance and had, as a result, loaned its riot equipment out to other law enforcement agencies, responded quickly by calling up about 2,000 soldiers, but could not get them to the city until nearly 24 hours had passed because of a lack of proper equipment, training, and available ammunition which had to be picked up from the JFTB (Joint Forces Training Base), Los Alamitos, California.[36]
In an attempt to end hostilities, Bill Cosby spoke on the NBC affiliate television station KNBC and asked people to stop what they were doing and instead watch the final episode of The Cosby Show.[37][38]
Riots and Korean-Americans
See also: History of the Korean Americans in Los Angeles
Korean-Americans in Los Angeles refer to the event as "Sa-I-Gu", meaning "four-two-nine" in Korean, in reference to April 29, 1992, which was the day the riots started. The riots prompted various responses from Korean-Americans, including the formation of activist organizations such as the Association of Korean-American Victims, and increased efforts to build collaborative links with other ethnic groups.[47]
During the riots, many Korean immigrants from the area rushed to Koreatown, after Korean-language radio stations called for volunteers to guard against rioters. Many were armed, with a variety of improvised weapons, shotguns, and semi-automatic rifles.[48]
According to Professor Edward Park, director of the Asian Pacific American Studies Program[49] at Loyola Marymount University,[50] the 1992 violence stimulated a new wave of political activism among Korean-Americans, but it also split them into two camps. The liberals sought to unite with other minorities in Los Angeles to fight against racial oppression and scapegoating. The conservatives emphasized law and order and generally favored the economic and social policies of the Republican Party. The conservatives tended to emphasize the political differences between Koreans and other minorities, specifically African Americans and Hispanics.[51][52]
A year prior to the Los Angeles riots, storekeeper Soon Ja Du argued with ninth-grader Latasha Harlins over whether the 15-year-old had been trying to steal a bottle of orange juice from Empire Liquor, the store Du's family owned in Compton. After a brief fight, Du shot and killed Harlins. (Security tape showed the girl was still clutching $2 in her hand when investigators arrived.) Du was convicted of voluntary manslaughter but not sentenced to any prison time.[53] This was the catalyst that fueled much of the rage against Koreans and Korean storeowners in the Los Angeles community. Racial tensions had been simmering underneath the surface for several years. Many African-Americans were angry toward a growing Korean merchant community in South Central Los Angeles earning a living in their communities, and felt disrespected and looked down on by many Korean merchants. Cultural differences and a language barrier further fueled tensions in an already fragile environment. With the acquittal of four LAPD officers in the Rodney King beating trial and the aftermath of the Soon Ja Du trial where she was sentenced to probation for killing Latasha Harlins, the Los Angeles riots ensued and much of the anger was directed at Koreans.
One of the most iconic and controversial television images of the violence was a scene of two Korean merchants firing pistols repeatedly at roving looters. The New York Times said "that the image seemed to speak of race war, and of vigilantes taking the law into their own hands."[54] The merchants, jewelry store and gun shop owner Richard Park and his gun store manager, David Joo, were reacting to the shooting of Mr. Park's wife and her sister by looters who converged on the shopping center where the shops were located.[54]
Due to their low social status and language barrier, Korean Americans received very little if any aid or protection from police authorities.[55] David Joo, a manager of the gun store, said, "I want to make it clear that we didn't open fire first. At that time, four police cars were there. Somebody started to shoot at us. The LAPD ran away in half a second. I never saw such a fast escape. I was pretty disappointed." Carl Rhyu, a participant in the Korean immigrants' armed response to the rioting, said, "If it was your own business and your own property, would you be willing to trust it to someone else? We are glad the National Guard is here. They're good backup. But when our shops were burning we called the police every five minutes; no response."[54] At a shopping center several miles north of Koreatown, Jay Rhee, who estimated that he and others fired five hundred shots into the ground and air, said, "We have lost our faith in the police. Where were you when we needed you?" Korean Americans were ignored. Koreatown was isolated from South Central Los Angeles, yet despite such exclusion it was the heaviest hit.[55]
Preparations
One of the largest armed camps in Los Angeles' Koreatown was at the California Market. On the first night after the verdicts were returned in the trial of the four officers charged in the beating of Rodney King, Richard Rhee, the market owner, posted himself in the parking lot with about 20 armed employees.[56] One year after the riots fewer than one in four damaged or destroyed businesses reopened, according to the survey conducted by the Korean-American Inter-Agency Council.[57] According to a Los Angeles Times survey conducted eleven months after the riots, almost 40% of Korean-Americans said they were thinking of leaving Los Angeles.[58]
Before a verdict was issued in the new 1993 Rodney King federal civil rights trial against the four officers, Korean shop owners prepared for the worst as fear ran throughout the city, gun sales went up, virtually all of them by those of Korean descent,[citation needed] some merchants at flea markets removed their merchandise from their shelves, storefronts were fortified with extra Plexiglas and bars. Throughout the region, merchants readied to defend themselves as if on the eve of a war.[57] College student Elizabeth Hwang spoke of the attacks on her parents' convenience store in 1992 and the fact that if trouble erupted following the 1993 trial, that they were armed with a Glock 17 pistol, a Beretta and a shotgun and they planned to barricade themselves in their store to fight off looters.[57]
Some Koreans formed armed self-defence groups following the 1992 riots. Speaking just prior to the 1993 verdict, Mr. Yong Kim, leader of the Korea Young Adult Team of Los Angeles, which purchased five AK-47s, stated, "We made a mistake last year. This time we won't. I don't know why Koreans are always a special target for African-Americans, but if they are going to attack our community then we are going to pay them back."[57]
(Especially read the last paragraph.)
Second day (Thursday, April 30)
Although the day began relatively quietly, by mid-morning on the second day violence appeared widespread and unchecked as heavy looting and fires were witnessed across Los Angeles County. Korean-Americans, seeing the police force's abandonment of Koreatown, organized armed security teams composed of store owners, who defended their livelihoods from assault by the mobs. Open gun battles were televised, as in one well publicized incident where Korean shopkeepers armed with M1 carbines, pump action shotguns and handguns exchanged gunfire with, broke up and forced a retreat of a group of armed looters.[35]
Organized law-enforcement response began to come together by midday. Fire crews began to respond backed by police escort; California Highway Patrol reinforcements were airlifted to the city; and Los Angeles Mayor Tom Bradley announced a dusk-to-dawn curfew at 12:15 am. President George H. W. Bush spoke out against the rioting, stating that "anarchy" would not be tolerated. The California Army National Guard, which had been advised not to expect civil disturbance and had, as a result, loaned its riot equipment out to other law enforcement agencies, responded quickly by calling up about 2,000 soldiers, but could not get them to the city until nearly 24 hours had passed because of a lack of proper equipment, training, and available ammunition which had to be picked up from the JFTB (Joint Forces Training Base), Los Alamitos, California.[36]
In an attempt to end hostilities, Bill Cosby spoke on the NBC affiliate television station KNBC and asked people to stop what they were doing and instead watch the final episode of The Cosby Show.[37][38]
Riots and Korean-Americans
See also: History of the Korean Americans in Los Angeles
Korean-Americans in Los Angeles refer to the event as "Sa-I-Gu", meaning "four-two-nine" in Korean, in reference to April 29, 1992, which was the day the riots started. The riots prompted various responses from Korean-Americans, including the formation of activist organizations such as the Association of Korean-American Victims, and increased efforts to build collaborative links with other ethnic groups.[47]
During the riots, many Korean immigrants from the area rushed to Koreatown, after Korean-language radio stations called for volunteers to guard against rioters. Many were armed, with a variety of improvised weapons, shotguns, and semi-automatic rifles.[48]
According to Professor Edward Park, director of the Asian Pacific American Studies Program[49] at Loyola Marymount University,[50] the 1992 violence stimulated a new wave of political activism among Korean-Americans, but it also split them into two camps. The liberals sought to unite with other minorities in Los Angeles to fight against racial oppression and scapegoating. The conservatives emphasized law and order and generally favored the economic and social policies of the Republican Party. The conservatives tended to emphasize the political differences between Koreans and other minorities, specifically African Americans and Hispanics.[51][52]
A year prior to the Los Angeles riots, storekeeper Soon Ja Du argued with ninth-grader Latasha Harlins over whether the 15-year-old had been trying to steal a bottle of orange juice from Empire Liquor, the store Du's family owned in Compton. After a brief fight, Du shot and killed Harlins. (Security tape showed the girl was still clutching $2 in her hand when investigators arrived.) Du was convicted of voluntary manslaughter but not sentenced to any prison time.[53] This was the catalyst that fueled much of the rage against Koreans and Korean storeowners in the Los Angeles community. Racial tensions had been simmering underneath the surface for several years. Many African-Americans were angry toward a growing Korean merchant community in South Central Los Angeles earning a living in their communities, and felt disrespected and looked down on by many Korean merchants. Cultural differences and a language barrier further fueled tensions in an already fragile environment. With the acquittal of four LAPD officers in the Rodney King beating trial and the aftermath of the Soon Ja Du trial where she was sentenced to probation for killing Latasha Harlins, the Los Angeles riots ensued and much of the anger was directed at Koreans.
One of the most iconic and controversial television images of the violence was a scene of two Korean merchants firing pistols repeatedly at roving looters. The New York Times said "that the image seemed to speak of race war, and of vigilantes taking the law into their own hands."[54] The merchants, jewelry store and gun shop owner Richard Park and his gun store manager, David Joo, were reacting to the shooting of Mr. Park's wife and her sister by looters who converged on the shopping center where the shops were located.[54]
Due to their low social status and language barrier, Korean Americans received very little if any aid or protection from police authorities.[55] David Joo, a manager of the gun store, said, "I want to make it clear that we didn't open fire first. At that time, four police cars were there. Somebody started to shoot at us. The LAPD ran away in half a second. I never saw such a fast escape. I was pretty disappointed." Carl Rhyu, a participant in the Korean immigrants' armed response to the rioting, said, "If it was your own business and your own property, would you be willing to trust it to someone else? We are glad the National Guard is here. They're good backup. But when our shops were burning we called the police every five minutes; no response."[54] At a shopping center several miles north of Koreatown, Jay Rhee, who estimated that he and others fired five hundred shots into the ground and air, said, "We have lost our faith in the police. Where were you when we needed you?" Korean Americans were ignored. Koreatown was isolated from South Central Los Angeles, yet despite such exclusion it was the heaviest hit.[55]
Preparations
One of the largest armed camps in Los Angeles' Koreatown was at the California Market. On the first night after the verdicts were returned in the trial of the four officers charged in the beating of Rodney King, Richard Rhee, the market owner, posted himself in the parking lot with about 20 armed employees.[56] One year after the riots fewer than one in four damaged or destroyed businesses reopened, according to the survey conducted by the Korean-American Inter-Agency Council.[57] According to a Los Angeles Times survey conducted eleven months after the riots, almost 40% of Korean-Americans said they were thinking of leaving Los Angeles.[58]
Before a verdict was issued in the new 1993 Rodney King federal civil rights trial against the four officers, Korean shop owners prepared for the worst as fear ran throughout the city, gun sales went up, virtually all of them by those of Korean descent,[citation needed] some merchants at flea markets removed their merchandise from their shelves, storefronts were fortified with extra Plexiglas and bars. Throughout the region, merchants readied to defend themselves as if on the eve of a war.[57] College student Elizabeth Hwang spoke of the attacks on her parents' convenience store in 1992 and the fact that if trouble erupted following the 1993 trial, that they were armed with a Glock 17 pistol, a Beretta and a shotgun and they planned to barricade themselves in their store to fight off looters.[57]
Some Koreans formed armed self-defence groups following the 1992 riots. Speaking just prior to the 1993 verdict, Mr. Yong Kim, leader of the Korea Young Adult Team of Los Angeles, which purchased five AK-47s, stated, "We made a mistake last year. This time we won't. I don't know why Koreans are always a special target for African-Americans, but if they are going to attack our community then we are going to pay them back."[57]
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and thinking ahead should be commended, but not at the expence of safety. The only good thing about a handgun is how it allows for mobility, mobility so you can get to your rifle. Further, let people say what they will say about his shirt. If he was wearing camo they would say "he contimplaited killing" if he was wearing. I never understand the willingness some "pro gun" people have to take issue with they way another expresses their RIGHT. He's trying to protect his livelihood, give the guy a break. IIt is flat out his choice if he wants to accept the so called "risk" of wearing Nike.
I personally would have no problem if he wore a t-shirt with "I Shoot Looters" printed on it. I'm just pointing out the simple fact that, right or wrong, juries and prosecutors might draw unwanted conclusions about his overall mindset if he wound up facing criminal charges for using his gun. Perception is everything.
One other thing to consider is ricochets and overpenetration, which is why I would not choose an AK or an AR if I were standing guard in front of my property in Ferguson. It is an urban area with hundreds of innocent bystanders, most of whom have video cameras, and most of whom are unarmed. A huge can of pepper spray, backed up with a handgun or a shotgun loaded with birdshot, would be far less of a liability.
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soberups
Are there any INNOCENT BYSTANDERS on the streets during a riot???
I didn't think so . . .
Sheldon
Are there any INNOCENT BYSTANDERS on the streets during a riot???
I didn't think so . . .
Sheldon
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Buy amunition that is less likely to over penetrate. Im sorry but if it were my store I would be right in front with my rifle... although I would have a bit more cover and armor. if anyone wants to fight me in court about that fine. I have an excellent lawyer.
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